Friend and children still in complete lockdown

[madbirdlady22]

I am getting quite worried about a friend of mine, and wondered if there is something I can or should be doing do to help her.

Since mid March she has been in lockdown with her dh and children, and along the same lines as everyone else stayed in. Back then she would not even take the children for a walk, they stayed at home 247 with shopping delivered. I asked her why not go for a walk, but she said there was no need as they have a garden.

Now we are in mid July, and the children have still not been out. They decided against going back to school in June, and they have not been out anywhere at all since March. I am feeling quite worried now, not just for her, but for the children as well (they are ages 7 and 4) she has not seen any friends or been out of the house at all since the lockdown began.

I suggested the park, she said it was too busy, I mentioned going to the gardens nearby for a picnic with her dc, and she said they couldn't get a ticket, but I know it is possible to get tickets easily. She lives an hour and a half away, so I can't just pop in and check on her, and I feel I should respect her wishes.

She is now saying she doesn't think the children will go back to school in September after all. I am getting very worried about her.

I think/thought her MH is fine, her dh has PTSD at the moment. I am feeling concerned, she has no family nearby and no other support from what I can gather.

They spend all day every day in the house or in the garden.
They are not shielding, are not vulnerable at all and they are all perfectly healthy.

Should I say something? Are other people also doing this? Should I just leave them to it? She has been a friend for 35 years plus and we grew up together.

who is present and where those people have been

I am obviously going to ask you how you will vet your children's friends and how will you know 'where they have been'. Will you ask them before you agree to meet up?

lockdown I do understand and agree with your point, there are a great many advantages to this time with our children. I have enjoyed many many aspects of lockdown, and we are definitely closer as a family now. There are also things we may not change back as we enjoy them so much, so I do get it.

I also agree the parents and family home generally are the most important thing to a child's feelings of security and safety. Although we have to remember this is not the case for every child. But in terms of development and social skills you have to at least admit this is far from ideal for most children?

Certainly most British children are raised with other children and have no experience of being alone before now.

What about only children? They are often perfectly happy being alone. My dd is taking on the phone to her friends, FaceTiming etc. She's just not having physical contact.

Just because some people aren't enjoying lockdown, they shouldn't assume that everyone feels the same. For us, it's been lovely to spend time together as a family. I enjoy being with my dd

hear I would be very happy for a friend to ask me if I am okay, and to look out for me. I would assume they cared for us all a great deal.

@madbirdlady22 I'm pretty shocked by the number of people who are doing the same as your friend too.
They don't have to go to the shops but out for a walk within their family unit or have a socially distanced picnic with a friend would be healthier than total isolation.

YANBU to be concerned, that’s what any friend should do if there is something unusual going on with a friend. But I do think YABU a little bit in terms of the determination she’s wrong. You’ve said a few times that you’re ready to be told you’re wrong and you going out is risky. But that train of thought assumes there is only one right answer. You’re absolutely not wrong to be taking your kids out and getting back to normality. But equally, those choosing to stay more at home are not wrong either. I don’t think you can say with 100% certainty there is no underlying condition they haven’t told you about... maybe she’s pregnant and hasn’t told anyone yet. Maybe there is a health concern with one of them she hasn’t told you about. And to say she’d go out for a walk with the kids if her husband had cancer isn’t right... you might if you determined the risk was low but many might decide the risk is too high and essential shield to protect the ill person. It just comes back to the same thing, that it’s okay for people to have different choices and different opinions on risk. If she is anything like me, the more people try to inflict their opinions on me, the less I tell them. She may be going out and not telling you. Having said that, I still think you’re right to have some concerns, especially with the comment about the drinking, if that’s true. But don’t assume there’s a problem/mental health issues/controlling husband just because she’s choosing to be more risk adverse than you. All in all, she sounds like she’s happy and healthy, and the kids, apart from the odd tantrum which is normal anyway, are having time outside in the garden and getting lots of stimulation inside. Aside from keeping an eye on things, I wouldn’t be pressuring her to meet or ringing the school etc.

And to answer your question, I have been more risk adverse than most, due to pregnancy, although my DH is more concerned than I am about the virus anyway. We have recently started going on the odd walks where there aren’t many people. We have not been to the shops since before lockdown and will avoid them for the foreseeable. However the toddler will be going back to nursery when it opens because we’re at the point we need a break and he could really do with the interaction. But that doesn’t mean I feel comfortable about the risk... I’ve had to weigh up that it’s more damaging for us that he not return, so we have to take the risk.

I do think yabu, sorry.

Your OP describes my family to a tee except that my kids are older. I and DP are self-employed and work from home. Our kids have been home from school since mid-March as it was completely clear to me by then that the government was acting too slowly. They are remote learning, but only because their schools have been good about providing that - if they weren't, it wouldn't change my decision to keep them here. I hope they can go back in September, but if I think the government is mismanaging things still/again, I'll apply my own judgement instead of blindly trusting theirs.

We've had home deliveries of food and although I go out for essential errands, the kids haven't because they don't need to. We live in a rural area and can go for walks around the fields near home, but if all we had was our garden I would consider that perfectly adequate. The kids are completely happy and well adjusted. They get on with us and each other. They play games and musical instruments, read, watch TV and enjoy their own hobbies. We talk on the phone or skype with family and friends. Just for the record, we are also nice, normal, friendly, intelligent, funny people! No one is struggling.

I actually have seen two friends, one of whom I sat with in her garden at a safe distance from each other and we had a lovely catch-up. The other came to our house with her DC, who is friends with mine, and it was chaos. They didn't want to distance or stay in the garden and clearly thought we were bonkers not to let them into the house (it was a lovely day, so it's not like we kept them in the rain or anything). It was stressful and disappointing. I haven't told all my friends about either of these encounters, so any other friend might imagine we hadn't seen anyone at all.

Another friend has actually told me that if we catch Covid we'll be fine, as we aren't BAME and have no risk factors. She's known me over 30 years so should know perfectly well exactly what my risk factors are (I have two quite important ones). She may be less aware that two of the children are asthmatic, one of them severely. DH is also vulnerable for other reasons although not technically shielding. I feel that if we do get it, at least some of us have a high risk of faring quite badly. In any case, no one can be sure they'll be fine.

I think it's not for you to decide that your friend is being too extreme for good sense. As a pp said, everyone has to decide what their own level of acceptable risk is. None of this is to say that she is definitely fine and that all is definitely well. But her choices are not extreme or even uncommon, although here on MN there is definitely a lot of competitive bravado about Covid. And her circumstances are not that unusual either: lots of families have a member with MH issues and lots are fairly divorced from extended family - I would get a tick on both those counts too but it doesn't make me a vulnerable person, even though to external eyes it might justify interference.

In her shoes I would be happy to talk to you about your concerns, but I would not appreciate being told I was being OTT and if you turned up with tickets to the park and tried to railroad me, it would probably end our friendship.

You sound like a nice, genuine person but I think you need to develop a bit more respect for other people's choices.

This is difficult as technically she hasn’t done anything wrong

Apart from being a ridiculously overprotective parent who is actively damaging her children at the moment. This is no way applies to people who have good reason to stay indoors, but if there is no good reason this is absolutely crazy and so unfair for the children.

I read through your posts and they sound as if you were describing the situation we are in.

To be honest, the thing that I am enjoying less of this lockdown is my bloody boss being worried about my MH because I am not reacting to the lockdown as badly as some people in the team, she thinks I am in denial, alone at home (no family nearby) and perhaps over protecting my son who has asthma.

The plain truth is that I am an introvert and have really enjoyed having my space, and the flexibility to work from home, I spend a lot of time talking to friends online (as usual, most of us are expats so this is nothing new for us) TBH I spent weeks counting the seconds for the lockdown to take place because I learned through my last job how important it is to contain a new virus quickly, so when they sent us into lockdown I was not apprehensive, I was RELIEVED they finally did. I felt safe.

My teen is good at minding his own business as well, since his friends were not going out he didn’t feel trapped at home either. He quickly took into waking up late, spending the afternoon studying and having a ball on the Xbox with his friends until late (if it works for him, that’s fine, he is studying 5-6 hours a day, so he is doing his part of the deal).

The house is comfy, we have plenty of space and I guess all those years I Before CV19 I was always out and about but I know I will again when this passes. Nothing stays the same forever but for the time being I am making the best of this time... you should never let a good crisis go to waste.

@madbirdlady22

hear I would be very happy for a friend to ask me if I am okay, and to look out for me. I would assume they cared for us all a great deal.

But that's not what you are doing.

You've asked, she's answered but now you are starting threads online about them and pulling apart posters on here, demanding they justify their decisions to you.

Maybe your friend thinks you're being reckless and doesn't want to meet up with you? Maybe they are shielding but doesn't want to tell you in case you betray her trust and start up a thread about it? What if your friend is on MN and is reading this?

@madbirdlady22

I imagine anyone reading this thread might be shocked actually, at the number of healthy people still essentially in lockdown.

I wonder if the government and schools are aware of just how big a problem this could be.

It could be further compounded by a second wave, if we have one.

On an individual level there are probably teachers who are concerned about specific students, but overall why would the government or schools care? People living in permanent lockdown aren’t causing any issues in society, they’re not costing any money, if they de register from school arguably they are saving the government money. Well cared for children are not going to interest SS.

We can usually talk about anything, but for some reason she seems more guarded.

With respect @madbirdlady22, it's none of your business. She doesn't have to tell you everything.

At what point will you see that it is safe lockdown? As restaurants have been open for a few weeks now, and pubs too. Many schools have been operating normally for months. At what point will you say it is fine to go out and see friends, and go and sit on a beach/park?

Again, this is none of your business. I imagine they will do it when they feel comfortable. Like you. Like everyone else.

I started this thread because I am not that person.

I think you very much are that person and are desperately trying to appear that you are not.

I'm pretty shocked by the number of people who are doing the same as your friend too.
They don't have to go to the shops but out for a walk within their family unit or have a socially distanced picnic with a friend would be healthier than total isolation

You can see on here second that this is not uncommon. It is in fact quite widespread.

It is a worrying development in my view, because in our area for instance we haven't had a single infection since the end of May, so the risk is indeed minimal.

I respect my friends' choices, I am worried about her children though I can't lie.

@NudgeUnit That sounds completely different as you're going for walks.

You should never let a good crisis go to waste.

your post made me laugh out loud at the end. So true, and there is nothing wrong with making the most of it! I have a dh that sounds just like you and he is genuinely sad to see the restrictions easing as he has enjoyed it so much. The lack of obligation, socialising and all the rest = bliss. My friend is one of the most gregarious people I know, so if she was more introverted (and I have other friends that are, and have gone underground with the perfect excuse) then it would be less of a worry, but she has always been a really social butterfly, and loves/loved going out, so it is out of character, for her at least.

I suspect she has some underlying mental health issues...the press have done a great job of scaremongering and unfortunately it has played on the anxiety of many, especially those who struggle to maintain rational thoughts.

My extremely fit and healthy Dsis has more or less been doing the same, she does however go out for a daily walk and has visited our DF once in his garden - the difference is she has no kids so can do whatever she likes.

If your friend keeps this up for any length of time I expect the school etc will be onto it anyway but it’s extremely sad for the kids.

I will leave it to September, and if she is still feeling the same then maybe that is the right time to speak to her, we can talk about gently.

At the moment she tells me it is all the idiots that have no idea how to socially distance that worries her the most, because she has seen them on the news etc, but if the death rate is at zero she may feel more confident to go out next month or by the autumn. It just seems like an awfully long time to be confined to one space.

They're not very long walks @SecondStarFromTheRight! And not everyone goes every day. Do you really think that's the one factor that makes our lives completely different from the OP's friend's? Because I think it sounds almost completely the same actually. And, as I was careful to say, the walks are something we're lucky to be able to do but if we couldn't I don't think it would matter in the least.

I just had no idea so many people were still staying inside!! I will see that. I am genuinely surprised. The parks, towns etc are packed with families in the sunshine, you would never guess so many were still at home.

**say

the difference is she has no kids so can do whatever she likes.

I know this is judgemental, but that's so true. It's one thing to make an informed choice as an adult, it's quite another to be 7, for example, and have no choice but not be allowed out, or be terrified into staying inside. It's not that easy to unpick once things are deemed safe again.

Can I just apologise for all of my typing errors! I need to repair or replace my phone and have no time to do so, and it sometimes does its own thing!

I'm beginning to think I'm you friend! We haven't been out or seen anyone except via zoom since lock down began! We have no intentions of doing so, though the kids will go to school in September.

We've absolutely loved being at home all the time! My kids are really enjoying the home schooling and not having to go anywhere. They aren't particularly missing their friends - the eldest has zoomed with some of theirs and we've tried the youngest but they aren't particularly interested.

I can assure you that my kids mental health is excellent - the youngest was previously very anxious and isn't any more, very much valued family time and having more parental time. We are also saving an absolute tonne of money due to no childcare fees and no social obligations.

DH and I are both working full time from home. DHs company have closed his office and give up the lease so he will be home working permanently now, I may be expected back in the hospital in September, but possibly not.

We were previously very sociable, very busy. Seeing friends and family every weekend, going out to shops, bars, restaurants, soft play, museums, national trust etc. We spent virtually no time at home. Lockdown has been a real eye opener for us and we have loved it.

Not everyone has suffered in lockdown.

At the moment she tells me it is all the idiots that have no idea how to socially distance that worries her the most, because she has seen them on the news etc

I mean, to be honest, she's not wrong about that. In fairness, the government have both directly and subliminally encouraged people not to take this pandemic seriously, but everyone who understands it from a scientific or epidemiological perspective has a lot more respect for how dangerous it is, and how hard it is to control in a society that incontinently insists on 'getting back to normal'.

I will add that I don't think my friend is 'wrong'
There are no rights or wrongs with covid and our decisions around how we deal with it, but I am worried about the children, because staying in one garden for six months with no contact with any other children or family or anyone at all, to me, seems unhealthy. And it is not something I could see her doing before this happened. That is my view.

@maxdash have you not been out for walks etc?