Friend and children still in complete lockdown

[madbirdlady22]

I am getting quite worried about a friend of mine, and wondered if there is something I can or should be doing do to help her.

Since mid March she has been in lockdown with her dh and children, and along the same lines as everyone else stayed in. Back then she would not even take the children for a walk, they stayed at home 247 with shopping delivered. I asked her why not go for a walk, but she said there was no need as they have a garden.

Now we are in mid July, and the children have still not been out. They decided against going back to school in June, and they have not been out anywhere at all since March. I am feeling quite worried now, not just for her, but for the children as well (they are ages 7 and 4) she has not seen any friends or been out of the house at all since the lockdown began.

I suggested the park, she said it was too busy, I mentioned going to the gardens nearby for a picnic with her dc, and she said they couldn't get a ticket, but I know it is possible to get tickets easily. She lives an hour and a half away, so I can't just pop in and check on her, and I feel I should respect her wishes.

She is now saying she doesn't think the children will go back to school in September after all. I am getting very worried about her.

I think/thought her MH is fine, her dh has PTSD at the moment. I am feeling concerned, she has no family nearby and no other support from what I can gather.

They spend all day every day in the house or in the garden.
They are not shielding, are not vulnerable at all and they are all perfectly healthy.

Should I say something? Are other people also doing this? Should I just leave them to it? She has been a friend for 35 years plus and we grew up together.

But there is a big difference between having to be restrictive because you’re at heightened risk of the virus and choosing to do that to your children when there isn’t a clear reason to do so.

Firstly OP doesn't actually know if anyone in the house is vulnerable. Bot everyone wants to discuss their health with their friends believe it or not. Secondly, not taking children for a walk during the pandemic is hardly going to be seen as a case of child abuse that requires intervention.

God her poor kids. It's understandable if someone in the home is vulnerable, but otherwise she is doing them a real disservice. They are going to come out of this with real problems.

I have been indoors since mid February with my two girls. I had a baby beginning of April and apart from that I've not been out. The older girls have walked the local fields with dad, but they are remote and haven't seen anyone on those walks. I started doing some trips in the field with the baby in June. I have been going daily with all three children for an hour or two most days. I have no desire at all to change this pattern. My girls don't want to go back to school and have asked to continue with home education. They have a great school, are popular, outgoing, pleasant children. They do usually go to clubs etc outside school to make sure they are well balanced in hobbies and interests / friendship groups etc.
I'm jeen for them to rejoin society and regain their confidence plus I defense think young babies benefit from early social interaction and development.

I have three family members visit once or twice.
I am in the shielding group which is why we've been so strict and have lived this way. Its much less complicated.

I would say if your friend is usually an outgoing person and her children, then I would question why she's chosen to be as extreme as she has if they aren't in the shielded group.
You mentioned PTSD of the dh, how well do you know him? How well do you know why he has PTSD? Has he been like this in any other aspects of their relationship over the years?
Could you talk to him directly about the situation?

How old are your children that they've opted for HE @Merryweather80 ?

How have you influenced that decision?

Raising fearful children who are taught that outside is dangerous is dangerous itself.

So true. My aim throughout this is that my DC would not emerge from this as scared, frightened, cowering shells of their former selves. I have done my best not to make this an anxiety filled worrying time whatever concerns I had personally. They are old enough (teens) to understand the news and we discussed quite a lot that this is a once in a generation event. They were surprisingly compliant about lockdown and understood that while they might not be at high risk but they could pass it to others. I was particularly proud of them and their friends for this. I was thrilled when they were able to see friends and go out socially again. I would be devastated if my DC were still locked indoors unnecessarily. The risk of them being hurt or injured on their way to school is higher than them being seriously ill from contracting the virus.

No, this is not normal. Nobody has the right to keep children locked away like this... this will cause serious long term damage if not addressed.
Be honest next time you talk. Tell her you’re worried & she needs to break this awful cycle. Call the local school too... just have a chat. Might be a little too late though.
I fear her DH is being very controlling... has there ever been signs of abusive behaviour? There’s definitely something else going on here, this isn’t just normal anxiety. I could quite happily shut myself away, but even in the very beginning, I made sure I went out with my children for a walk every day. I know some very vulnerable young people & they are now out and about too. I wonder how many other children are going through this at the moment. Scary.

We have created this problem by overreacting as a country

You lost me here,OP.
You seem very over invested in your friend. My DC have not been to school and have forged an amazing sibling relationship. We have Zoomed loads to maintain relationships

Just because someone does something different to you does not mean they're endangering their children. If you're that worried call SS, not MN.

@Coronabegone The girls are 8 and 6. I think they have just enjoyed one to one teaching and attention from me to be honest. The school have sent lots for both of them to do and I've added to this based on their individual interests.
I asked just out of interest a few days ago. They both said they miss specific individuals from school but were happy at home doing their work and wanted to continue in this way.
We won't be though. I don't think. I'm seriously considering it. I think though they need the social and emotional development school provides that just can't be replicated at home.

How old are your children that they've opted for HE @Merryweather80 ?

How have you influenced that decision?

You could ask the same about institutional education.

@Itisbetter who would I ask that question too?

My aim throughout this is that my DC would not emerge from this as scared, frightened, cowering shells of their former selves. I have done my best not to make this an anxiety filled worrying time whatever concerns I had personally.

I absolutely agree with this approach. Every parent should be helping their children to cope emotionally with all this. Their mental health is hugely important.

@Coronabegone anyone coming out of lockdown sending their children to school.

@GoldenOmber

And, no, I don’t see the point in putting them in the pushchair to walk around urban streets in the current climate.

How old would they need to be before you thought there would be a benefit to them from leaving the house?

I do think lockdown has been easier for younger children. My toddler has ruled the roost like a tiny emperor while her older sister has struggled a lot. But even then, the toddler has enjoyed going out even just round the local area - pointing at passing dogs, shouting “Car!” at cars, picking up pine cones in the park. It seems awfully limiting for children to think that so long as they have a nice house and garden they’ll never need to see anything outside it.

An age where they have friends they can identify and understand spending time with as opposed to being out because it’s my choice and was an activity to get me out of the house. They really are that young that they don’t have relationships with anyone other than DH and I. There are no siblings at home (their older 1/2 siblings are adults with lives of their own - one of them 4 1/2 hours drive away, the other with 3 children of their own) and wider family relationships are not close ones with regular time spent together before Covid so they really aren’t missing out on something they were used to.

Rememberallball I posted above about a toddler I saw today who was exploring her environment and having new experiences in a way she probably wouldn't have been able to do at home. Isn't that worth taking your children out for? To experience new sights, new sounds, new sensations?

@GoldenOmber when DS was little we would just go for walks (well he would usually be in the pushchair) round the local park or the town so he could see things and like you say point at cars, buses, pretty flowers in people’s gardens, people walking dogs etc. At that age it is all a learning experience and all those things are still possible in lockdown (unless shielding) and you can still social distance. And it gets you out from the same 4 walls.

YANBU for being worried but I'm at a loss as to why you've not had a more robust discussion about this.

I.e

Dear friend, I'm very worried about you, I respect you wishes to isolate but it's been 4 months and this is going beyond reasonable behaviour particularly as you've no plans to send the children back to school.
This behaviour is not healthy and you've provided no sensible reason as to why you're taking this course of action.
Please tell me what's going on because I'm worried and I'm not accepting any more breezy platitudes.
What is going on?
What can I do to support you?

I think people really, really need to get risk into perspective and consider the consequences and impact on their DC on being of isolated unnecessarily.

@LetitiaMartin

Rememberallball I posted above about a toddler I saw today who was exploring her environment and having new experiences in a way she probably wouldn't have been able to do at home. Isn't that worth taking your children out for? To experience new sights, new sounds, new sensations?

I really would agree with this. Rememberallball why not try taking your children out for just a walk around now they're growing into toddlers? Even if it feels like a boring walk to you? To us as adults it probably doesn't feel like streets, dogs, trees, passing cars etc etc are all that interesting, but for young toddlers they are fascinating. Mine saw some ducks today and nearly threw herself out of the buggy with excitement, and was wandering around quacking to herself for ages after we got home.

Toddlers want to learn and explore. It isn't just about having friends, it's about learning about the whole wide world beyond their front door.

@LetitiaMartin

Rememberallball I posted above about a toddler I saw today who was exploring her environment and having new experiences in a way she probably wouldn't have been able to do at home. Isn't that worth taking your children out for? To experience new sights, new sounds, new sensations?

To me, at the moment, in this climate with there still being so many people getting the virus weekly, no it isn’t worth taking them out for. There is nowhere round here that would have few enough people for all of us to be safe and, at the moment, the advice for people shielding is only to go out if necessary which tells me the risk is still high.

@GoldenOmber, there really is nothing of any interest to anyone in the streets surrounding my home - parked cars, no trees, no ducks - and, even if there were, they are too young to know what a car or a duck are. I am quite happy with them indoors at the moment while the risk is high enough that the advice for people shielding is to only go out if necessary. We have survived since the end of March and will continue to at home.

there really is nothing of any interest to anyone in the streets surrounding my home - parked cars, no trees, no ducks - and, even if there were, they are too young to know what a car or a duck are

But that's you thinking like an adult. "Oh a parked car, how boring." To a toddler who hasn't seen one before it is really interesting! A bird flying through the sky is fascinating. Dandelions growing out of the pavement are fascinating. They don't need to know what a car or a bird or a dandelion are to find them interesting, they are just interested in new things, and way more so than little babies are. You talk about getting out being for your sake not theirs - that's the case for babies, not toddlers. Toddlers, you get them out for their sake.

I am sure you are only trying to do the best for your children as are we all, but it seems like in order to feel like you're keeping them safe from the virus you are ignoring other things they might need. I suspect that me continuing to talk about this with you is not going to get either of us anywhere and it's not like you have anything to prove to Mumsnet, but would you consider speaking to your health visitor about it, at least?

@GoldenOmber

there really is nothing of any interest to anyone in the streets surrounding my home - parked cars, no trees, no ducks - and, even if there were, they are too young to know what a car or a duck are

But that's you thinking like an adult. "Oh a parked car, how boring." To a toddler who hasn't seen one before it is really interesting! A bird flying through the sky is fascinating. Dandelions growing out of the pavement are fascinating. They don't need to know what a car or a bird or a dandelion are to find them interesting, they are just interested in new things, and way more so than little babies are. You talk about getting out being for your sake not theirs - that's the case for babies, not toddlers. Toddlers, you get them out for their sake.

I am sure you are only trying to do the best for your children as are we all, but it seems like in order to feel like you're keeping them safe from the virus you are ignoring other things they might need. I suspect that me continuing to talk about this with you is not going to get either of us anywhere and it's not like you have anything to prove to Mumsnet, but would you consider speaking to your health visitor about it, at least?

Haha health visitors who saw my family as a novelty and knew less than nothing!! They were worse than useless, didn’t take into account that my twins were born prematurely and had to be assessed based on their expected due date not their actual birth date meaning they ‘failed’ their 6-8 week developmental check; couldn’t plot weights accurately on growth charts making it look like they had dropped centiles when they hadn’t; and wanted to do a ‘mandatory’ 3-4 month review (that isn’t even in the red book) when the babies should have been 6 weeks old; then told me that engagement with them was a requirement and that not doing so would lead to them reporting us for non engagement with required medical services (despite the GP surgery being involved with us for medical needs) - they were swiftly told that I didn’t appreciate, nor need them trying to scaremonger me into compliance with an optional service and that I would not be engaging any further with them.

And, at under a year old, they very much are still babies even if they are mobile round the furniture in the house.

But @Rememberallball they can see things outside that they can't in your own home, they need to know there is a world outside their front door.

@Rememberallball When I got a puppy I was told by all the dog experts, vets etc to socialise him in order to have a relaxed happy confident dog. Even before he had his vaccinations I would carry him in my arms, to shops, in the streets etc..I bought up my babies in the same way! I wanted them to be comfortable in different situations, seeing new faces etc..the thought of deliberately keeping them locked indoors when the risks are small now, is alien to me. I'm not saying I'm a perfect mum but why you would make your kids afraid of the outside world I will never know.

I agree with inneedofaholiday ..children do need stimulation and staying at home does not tick all the boxes!! I am actually worried about the MH for these lovely kids!!