To ask how much of your income you spend on school fees? And pls tell me its worth it...

[Claliscool]

Not rich by any means.
Decided to send both children to independent school in September due to all sorts of covid and other reasons. The fees are about one third of our household income. Just bricking it slightly.

It's not the sector though, it's the school. It's the student, their growth, development, experience, education (in every sense). It's not private is better than state. It's what school is best for a particular child.

broadly 20% of income but self employed so it definitely varies, but a tiny mortgage and we have savings to cover fees during lean years, we aren't flash with our money anyway, oldish car etc.

no question our indy did better during lockdown than the local state schools, hands down. Full weeks online timetable, balanced between academic, creative and active. The school announced covid planning in January and was prepared to switch to online after February half term if they'd had to. The local state by all accounts did very little, many parents grumbling (although not loudly because they don't want blowback on their DC when they return).

We moved our DCs to indy because the local 'outstanding' state school was toxic, cliquey, incredibly badly managed I could write a book. Ultimately DC ceased to learn there so we pulled her out. The local state high schools are not much better, one in particular talks the talk and there are definitely more flashy cars at parents evening than at our indy, but when friends kids are being tutored in core subjects from year 9 or removed because of bullying and we hear reports of drug taking and blow jobs in the toilets, its a no from us. I don't care how good their exam results are.

Our indy is not academically selective and won't worry the league tables results wise but they try to get the best out of each individual and OMG they find what those kids are good at individually so they take flight.

I don't give a fuck about social connections for DC in later life either, if you use indy school for that fair play to you but its a pretty shallow reason for anyone to spend so much money IMO. Smaller class size definitely better for our DC, it only takes a couple of disruptors to trash a year group for mine and they can't learn, in indy where expectations of behaviour are much higher, much better discipline this doesn't happen.

From chatting to family and friends (some are tutors), tutoring is rife in the SE schools, state and indy (I won't name names but I got a shock). But its the land of the high achieving social climbing types so 🤷‍♀️. up here not so much.

Since ditching state for indy I have happy DC, its worth every penny.

also, I think this thread demonstrates that there's no 'best' way, it comes down to what suits your family.

There’s bullying and drugs in private schools too. Children aren’t nicer or kinder because their parents have more money sadly. And in fact having more money usually means more access to harder drugs.

It’s also not “higher expectations” and “better discipline” that leads to less disruptive behaviour in independent schools, it’s having fewer students, all of whom come from nice middle class homes.

Whether you make the choice for the social “connections” or to socially segregate your children from a more diverse group is exactly the same thing.

It’s fine to choose a private school for your children, but important to face up to the reasons why you’re doing it.

@HarrietM87 What is your experience with any private school?

I've just had a promotion, DS is not two yet but we were comfortable on our current income and my promotion money we won't miss, it would cover school fees and any extras so we're now looking at him going private until grammar (several top twenty grammars in our area) so it's a finite expense. We don't have fancy cars or an expensive lifestyle. Fees will account for around 15% of our income so it suggests to me your income may be similar but you have two children. We definitely couldn't afford to privately educate two. I've also got the next few years to save up a good buffer before he reaches school age.

It’s not really relevant is it @DoubleTweenQueen, because every school is different. I’ve known and taught people that went to a massive range of schools across the UK, and have worked for an educational think tank and in university admissions so have a lot of different and relevant experience.

well that seemed to hit a nerve with HarrietM87

Well of course there’s bullying in drugs everywhere, just like on MN. Of course there are higher expectations of parents who are forking out for school.

The drug takers at our local state - aww poor little darlings what's happened in their lives for that to happen, they're the victims and the DC who reported them are vindictive.
Drug takers at our local indy - don't let the door hit you on your way out.
I know where I prefer my DC to be.

My experience of school discipline in state school is that it is woeful, inadequate and panders to the badly behaved (ignore bad behaviour, praise good) which teenagers have a field day with. Indy, hell no to that ethos.

Our choice wasn’t to socially segregate, thanks. It was to put DC in an environment where they didn’t constantly get the piss taken out of them for being brainboxes. Oh and its MUCH more socially diverse, racially and financially at the indy than at the local state school where parents all compare cars, houses, clothes, compete like dickheads and treat the poorer families like shit, manipulate friendships and exclude their social 'inferiors'.

Sounds like you agree with all the points I made then @notasportymum, other than on the diversity front?

I didn’t say discipline wasn’t better in your school (how would I know?!), I just challenged your reasons for why that might be. Lots of state schools have excellent discipline despite much more challenging circumstances.

And as for diversity, can’t speak for your school but the statistics speak for themselves. You may not like to think you’ve chosen to socially segregate your children, but you have, by virtue of the fact that all of their peers come from a family with a certain minimum income.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that at all by the way. Your local state sounds crap. But I do object to the pretence that it’s not really about that.

I understand the draw of private schools if your concern is safety from violence or drugs, but it is worth considering whether you are necessarily avoiding those things by taking the private route. Also, it depends what you want your children to get out of education. A few people we know have opted for private and some had issues with excessive pressure on the kids, and it seems to me, a more toxic environment among the kids. This is anecdotal but there seemed to be more kids with eating disorders and sexist and intolerant behaviour by other kids seemed worse. Finally, and this will vary from family to family, I feel that because school put less pressure on our kids, we were able to watch lots of films and documentaries with them, which had a lot of educational value. I know that's not helpful if your kids are aiming for medical school and your secondary school option doesn't have a good science dept, but it's worth thinking about.

Honestly I'm not sure if is worth it. I went to a private school and was deeply unhappy there. It was a good school but there was a lot of pressure and it felt like they were keener on positive results than wellbeing. I've done ok since but like most people am destined to have an average job. The truth is I am not ambitious, I want to be happy, relaxed and not under pressure. My dad recently asked me if I'd have rather been given the money towards a house or something and the answer for me was a categorical yes. Private school didn't transform my life, but that money now would. Also my parents would have had less work pressure on their shoulders whilst I was growing up. I want to provide my kids opportunities but honestly all I care about is that they are happy. They don't need to have a high flying academic life or career to achieve that so won't be going private unless it is a real last resort and there is genuinely no alternative.

OP starts a thread asking fee paying parents a question

Cue non fee parents coming on to say - ‘it’s not worth the money’ ‘your just social climbing’ ‘my state school is better’

Every. Single. Time.

I don’t know why they are so compelled to come on and say it when it’s completely irrelevant to the thread. I wonder what it could be?...

@HarrietM87 oh dear No actual experience then. Your post was disgusting, hateful and irrelevant.

@HarrietM87 the so ial segregation goes across school sectors though. Our (only) local outstanding primary school is predominantly white, incomes in 6 digit figures (houses in catchment are insanely expensive).
Another one is predominantly white, incomes below 20k. Another one predominantly asian decent, low incomes. Yet another one white, catholic, incomes high 5 digit minimum (the uniform is insanely expensive, much more so than local Independents, and there are “voluntary” donations). Another one or two genuinely mixed.
The private schools are differently mixed - yes, mostly higher incomes (high 5 digit and above, but so are 2 of the state primaries), but much more multicultural.It all depends on the local situation, global statements don’t make a lot of sense.

Wow @DoubleTweenQueen that’s pretty aggressive. Are you ok?

What kind of experience would you think IS relevant? Having kids at one private school? Having attended one private school? Through my work I’ve taught children at lots of private and state schools, studied the impact of attending private school academically and socially from a research perspective (and been published), and considered applications from children at all kinds of schools for entry to Cambridge, as well as working in their access programmes.

None of what I said was inaccurate. Not sure what you’ve objected to either.

we have the funds from 2 sets of grandparents and can afford all the extras but have decided to hold that to give them a larger house deposit.

i've thought really hard. my conclusion is that it is "a nice to have" rather than "must have". i just dont think its worth it unless you have all the trappings of a wealthy for generations type of lifestyle. it wont make your child become a magic circle lawyer or international diplomat unless everything else is in place.

mental health and personality play a huge role in how successful you are in school and the workplace. right place, right time or lucky breaks and hard work do too.

i do think private school would be a better experience though. i'm just not sure its really going to give the kids what i hope it would.

I would say it depends on what you are like as parents and what your kids are like as students. I had proactive parents, went to grammar school and am doing exactly what I want in life. I was a very hard worker and had a strong drive to succeed. My husband's parents on the other hand were not worldy and he is laid back. Had he not gone to one of the best private schools in the country (they worked several jobs between them for the pleasure) I think he would have turned out very differently......

I wouldn't send my kids to private school for the academics , I would for getting the unwavering confidence that they can do anything they set their minds at. No amount of parents telling them this will work. They need to be with others that think the same

ooops, answering your Q, yes it does sound affordable for you but make sure you have savings or help from family in case of an emergency.

Not everyone who goes to private school does better than those in state schools. I did the same course at university as many who went to private schools, some even boarded at very prestigious schools such as Eaton. They got the same degree as me. I’m also good friends with a mum from school who went to private school and she does the same job as me. I suppose it depends what you local state schools are like. Pay for private school if you can easily afford it and really need it, but I don’t think it’s worth forgoing a good quality of life for.

Btw, i got a massive house deposit from my parents bu5 went to the local grotty state school where being good at school was very, very uncool. I wish I had gone to a school where achievement was considered cool. I still did well academically, but hated school. I selected our school for me as a parent being in charge. And that means independent. State schools are so underfunded, they can’t help kids who are different from the norm, and have no incentive to do so (all they need to please are Ofsted and results tables)

@HarrietM87

Wow *@DoubleTweenQueen* that’s pretty aggressive. Are you ok?

What kind of experience would you think IS relevant? Having kids at one private school? Having attended one private school? Through my work I’ve taught children at lots of private and state schools, studied the impact of attending private school academically and socially from a research perspective (and been published), and considered applications from children at all kinds of schools for entry to Cambridge, as well as working in their access programmes.

None of what I said was inaccurate. Not sure what you’ve objected to either.

Harriet tbh I don’t know why your on this thread. Nothing you have posted is relevant to the OP question. Yeah we get it, you don’t like private schools but we do. Your not paying - we are. Your observation and studies mean zero to me. Nothing. Meaningless. My girls love their school, I love it. We’ve very lucky to get the places we have. It’s all good

We’re all allowed a different opinion no??

the social aspect, nah that's a red herring, definitely not our reason for switching to indy anyway. its just a much more well rounded education, more interested in developing character, confidence and interests, not driven solely by exit results.

an added bonus of moving to indy, parents and staff on first name terms. There's no 'miss this' 'mr that' culture expected of parents, took a bit of getting used to but very refreshing after so much of that BS at the state school. I respect the teaching profession but I'm an adult, I'd rather not be spoken to in the same way as my 10 year old by another adult and have to say 'yes Mrs Whatserface'. This is probably not be true of all state/indy schools, just our experience.

What age are you thinking of sending them. If you’re worried about the fees can you do secondary only? That’s what we plan to do so we can save a buffer. I only want to be paying a be set of fees at any one time from income.

It’s these sorts of variables (savings, mortgage costs, job stability etc) that are likely to swing it one way or another. Also everyone has a line they wouldn’t cross. For me, I’d never remortgage it’s drop pension contributions to fund education but others do.

And I would say I was that bright child that did well in a slightly rubbish state school but I wouldn’t wish the experience on my own children (hence having a plan since birth to save for fees). X

@Evelefteden we’re all allowed a different opinion yet I shouldn’t even be on this thread?!

I haven’t criticised private schools at all. My first post on this thread said that it the right choice of school really depends on the child and the schools that are available. Do you disagree?

@DoubleTweenQueen asked me specifically for my experience and then called me disgusting and hateful for pointing out that there are bullying and drugs everywhere. Not really sure where all the vitriol is coming from. I’m glad you’re happy with your children’s school. That’s all any parent can ask for.