To ask how much of your income you spend on school fees? And pls tell me its worth it...

[Claliscool]

Not rich by any means.
Decided to send both children to independent school in September due to all sorts of covid and other reasons. The fees are about one third of our household income. Just bricking it slightly.

No savings, no property? Are you sure that you are doing the right thing?

@Chickenkatsu It’s too late for us to get on the property ladder now as we are both in our forties. We wouldn’t get a mortgage. Really the best thing we can do for our DC is provide them with a decent education in the hope that they don’t end up poor like us. I firmly believe that bright, motivated children will do well wherever they go to school. However, if your DC are quite average (which ours are), a private school can give them the extra support that they need to do well.

If Dd had been academic I wouldn’t have bothered sending her to a private school as there are so many outstanding and good state comprehensives in our area. But Dd was never going to be academically able so she went to a school where the emphasis wasn’t on academia.

It was also for my benefit as she was struggling with the homework at primary and I had to take over doing it and all I could see was years of homework that she couldn’t do but was expected to just get on with because it was in the curriculum.

Dd is dyslexic and has ADD and fitted into the private school we sent her to as nearly everyone else had dyslexia or some form of learning difficulties.
I think only 4 pupils in her year weren’t diagnosed with something
The SEN department in the school is amazing.

“The most academically successful child I know attended local state comp 'requires improvement'. Go figure”

Oh well that proves everything then..,,

You do realise there are independent schools where virtually no student ever gets a “B” grade?

Nobody is saying children in independent schools are more academic than those in state. But those in selective schools (state or independent) will be a selected cohort, This is obvious.

You do realise there are independent schools where virtually no student ever gets a “B” grade?

Yes, many of the them might have got all A in the state sector. Perfectly possible. But what people are paying for is an environment where A is the norm. In getting those grades your child doesn’t need to be an outlier in their school environment - just broadly keep up and the grades are pretty much inevitable.

I think if you have done well in the state sector (dh Cambridge next decent red brick good careers lots of hobbies) and have decent state schools locally it’s hard to see why people go private. Maybe best I don’t know about all these marvellous advantages we have all missed out on 😀 Seem to have survived!

@4catsonabed

“The most academically successful child I know attended local state comp 'requires improvement'. Go figure”

Oh well that proves everything then..,,

You do realise there are independent schools where virtually no student ever gets a “B” grade?

Nobody is saying children in independent schools are more academic than those in state. But those in selective schools (state or independent) will be a selected cohort, This is obvious.

You do realise there are independent schools where virtually no student ever gets a “B” grade?

Yes, many of the them might have got all A in the state sector. Perfectly possible. But what people are paying for is an environment where A is the norm. In getting those grades your child doesn’t need to be an outlier in their school environment - just broadly keep up and the grades are pretty much inevitable.

Oh please - we were asked for our experiences and opinions not double-blind placebo-controlled research papers. Touchy?

"You do realise there are independent schools where virtually no student ever gets a “B” grade?"

Yes, I do actually. My oldest 2 children attended a much sought after independent school where that was purportedly the case. The kind of school that attracts lengthy threads on Mumsnet. My older children laugh at those stats. - apparently the data is 'managed' and many C or worse grades are edited out due to remarks/resits or pupils asked not to sit exams.

Having watched several cohorts of children over a number of years I can safely say that I don't think it makes much difference. It's a fallacy that grouping all the 'brightest' children together guarantees success. The stats. on post 18 education bear this out as any 'gains' made up until 18 even out during and after university.

It's uncomfortable to think that all that money spent was possibly wasted and that we were taken in by the 'co-curricular excellence' and the 'pastoral care' but there it is, an unvarnished and honest opinion from someone with experience of 3 facets of the education system.

@ConiferGate - well, it’s the OP’s thread, so what makes you think I wasn’t taking it up with the OP? You addressed me directly first, not the other way round, so I responded to you directly explaining again why I find personal justifications from strangers about their children’s intelligence, SEN, tendency to get bullied, vague comments about undefined state and private schools in unknown locations, etc, somewhat pointless when it comes to deciding whether for a completely different person with completely different children, looking at what are probably completely different schools in a completely different part of the country, somewhat pointless. In other words, if I wanted to decide whether a private school I was considering for my child would be worth it, I wouldn’t ask a stranger from a different part of the country whether private school was worth it for them.

@MsTSwift

I think if you have done well in the state sector (dh Cambridge next decent red brick good careers lots of hobbies) and have decent state schools locally it’s hard to see why people go private. Maybe best I don’t know about all these marvellous advantages we have all missed out on 😀 Seem to have survived!

I agree. DD has done rather well for herself. She house shares with some students who were privately educated and says that sometimes the only way you can tell is that they are a little bit sheltered.

And if you actually read my posts, @ConiferGate, you would see it was not the part of the question about proportion of income spent I took issue with.

If school fees took up at least one third of our take home income, I definitely wouldn’t go down this route if we had a big mortgage as well!

Currently, 2 sets of secondary day school fees is easily £36k. You’ll need at least a £48k pre tax salary just to pay the school fees at the moment. By any definition, if you have a spare £48k+ pa disposable income for anything, you are rich.

Forget prep school fees, save your money and reassess for the secondary stage. Your circumstances may change in the next few years - new job, house move or increasingly likely, redundancy.

We have a negligible mortgage in order for us to manage school fees. We also have significant savings/investments because previous redundancies in past recessions have made me financially cautious and inclined to save rather than to spend. I would batten down the hatches personally - the economy is tanking and it will get worse. It’s not rocket science to provide support at home at the primary stage even with a FT job whereas the differential is more challenging at secondary level.

Original, not everyone feels their money was wasted. I don't. I paid school fees from 1987 when my oldest went to a private nursery school to 2017 when the twins left their all boys secondary private school. I was happy to pay fees. I don't think the very academic schools have to massage exam results any m ore than the most super selective state grammars need to - very bright children get in and they get good results as they are clever and the teaching is good.

Parents want all kinds of different things from schools from religion to sport, no lessons unless children want it (Summerhill) to muslim fundamentalism at some UK Saudi style boarding places to the Yeshivas for boys in Stamford Hill. for us for example as I met my husband in a Cathedral choir and his a pretty good organist and I sing every day things like singing church choral music in latin as a boy treble aged 7 was really important which you tend not to find in state primaries but would be a ridiculous requirement for most other families! Our 3 sons won music scholarships to their next schools at 12. Other people will want a school near them and think it was borderline cruelty to send our 5 year old on a 30 minute long Haberdashers school coach (yes she loved it).

"really don’t think people should bother asking why other people they do not know chose unnamed private schools in unnamed areas for their unknown children"

well if you take out the words 'private schools' that just about sums up most of mumsnet .

OP you might find posting in the education section useful.

I went to private school, as did my siblings and obviously I had lots of friends there! Whilst I enjoyed it, when I look at the fees it absolutely wasnt worth it. I am very average career wise, many of my friends are similar, some have great careers and others have done nothing of note despite the great education.

If money is no object then private school is a no brainer. However, dont expect a private school to guarantee a child a great future.

My own children go to a very good state school, they are happy and doing well. I think some parents (including mine) use private schools expecting them to have a far greater impact than they do, home life is actually more significant imo.

Isn’t it really just like any other purchase that’s a big one? What’s right for you and dc? What do you scorch to get for your money? (Nissan Juke or a Porsche 911?) Can you afford the Porsche? Is it going to meet your needs with two seats? Will it be value for money and do you want a speedy car or an everyday workhorse? We all go through these questions for purchases. It’s no different for education.

To a very large extent the outcomes in terms of exams are immaterial. I think mine would have got similar results at local state schools. In some specific subjects that would have been difficult to achieve but possible. I’ll never know. However they did get way better teaching in the subjects that ultimately mattered to them - exam result comparisons are fairly easy to do and some subjects are rarely offered in state schools. So again, it’s about choosing your product.

Far too many people just look at exam results. That’s really not 100% what a top class independent school is about. Once again a broad spectrum of interests should be catered for and it should be inspiring.

The idea that private school dc are “sheltered” is an interesting comment . The boarders we knew are anything but. They have a great capacity for self reliance and are confident to make decisions without parental approval. After all they’ve been doing that for years. Little helicoptering going on!

Sending your child to an independence school isn’t just about academics. We made this choice because the school was excellent pastorally and very good on the extra curriculars. Other advantages are confidence and excellent networking when older.

Other advantages are confidence and excellent networking when older.

I also asked DD about that, and she said that her privately educated friends are no more confident than she is.

Thinking about it at my City law firm it was always me dragged out by partners to client lunches and when they were recruiting 😀 my social skills are awesome due to my mother - guess some things can be taught in house!

There's confidence when interacting with people 'like you' and confidence interacting with the real world. I'm sure private schools are great at the first one, but I only have to see the local private school kids struggling to get on a bus to see that the second one gets forgotten. I'm sure their parents don't give a crap if their kids hold up rush hour traffic because they can't find their change or don't move up to let people on but the rest of us have to put up with it.

Something to be said for street smarts!

Although I did have to endure years of being dubbed “posh” albeit not in a malicious way but got abit old and I certainly wouldn’t have been viewed that way at private school I imagine

Thta's quite a valid and damning point about private schools.... private school parents don't teach their kids how to find their change for the bus.

[ponders]

For most I don't think private education is worth the cost. My state school child excelled at school and went on to Oxbridge. Whereas, my privately educated child, who is equally as bright, is unlikely to achieve more than a modest clutch of qualifications.

My sister's children attended the top private schools in the country and excelled academically, but have failed to realise that potential in their professional lives.

My child's Aunt pays 50% of his school fees, the remaining 50% we pay is approx 5% of our income.

Well I would say you’ve been a mug to pay then! I doubt very much that both are equally as academic. “Bright” can be very different to academic and can certainly describe a dc who won’t do much work or isn’t interested but has latent talent.

DC don’t truly understand where confidence gets you until they are in the jobs market. Lots of private schools do public speaking and take drama seriously. These are skills that are picked up on the way but only if dc engage with what’s on offer. Parental expectation also comes into it. Do you expect your dc to think for themselves, have soft skills and interview well?

My DC both did a school exchange to South Africa for a term when in y9. They both flew out with the other dc doing the exchange, had to change planes in Joburg and spend a term in a totally new boarding school environment. We didn’t accompany them. At 13 years old. Others went to Australia snd New Zealand. It was something very few dc got to do and many would be incapable of doing, even at 18. Studying abroad at university is another that gives you confidence. It’s all about taking the chance that’s offered and big by bit you build confidence and competence.

Dd aged 13 last year stayed for 2 weeks with friend of a friend Spanish family on an exchange and when we collected her the whole extended family turned up to drop her off and say goodbye and were effusive about what a lovely guest she had been. Proud. My work is done.

Well done. Not 3 months though! Spain is 2 hours away! Did she go to a Spanish school?

@Xenia

Original, not everyone feels their money was wasted. I don't. I paid school fees from 1987 when my oldest went to a private nursery school to 2017 when the twins left their all boys secondary private school. I was happy to pay fees. I don't think the very academic schools have to massage exam results any m ore than the most super selective state grammars need to - very bright children get in and they get good results as they are clever and the teaching is good.

Parents want all kinds of different things from schools from religion to sport, no lessons unless children want it (Summerhill) to muslim fundamentalism at some UK Saudi style boarding places to the Yeshivas for boys in Stamford Hill. for us for example as I met my husband in a Cathedral choir and his a pretty good organist and I sing every day things like singing church choral music in latin as a boy treble aged 7 was really important which you tend not to find in state primaries but would be a ridiculous requirement for most other families! Our 3 sons won music scholarships to their next schools at 12. Other people will want a school near them and think it was borderline cruelty to send our 5 year old on a 30 minute long Haberdashers school coach (yes she loved it).

Xenia, I'd agree. Which is why I used the word 'possibly'. It was very interesting that my younger two, furnished with the same options, chose differently.

I think it really depends on personal circumstances and, as you say, what people want for their children. However, I really do think that children should have the casting vote as they get older. I always felt that we were paying for our children to have a nice time because I really do think they would have achieved very well wherever they were. I think I had The Fear when applying for my oldest child and I also think I had PFB syndrome. He has done very well for himself but I'm not convinced it's because of his education. I think it's more about the individual and their personal characteristics.

In a situation where it would impact upon family finances so heavily, I just don't think it's worth it, barring a few very specific circumstances described by PP's.

change for the bus

of course they can find change and its drummed into them to always thank the driver. Thats nothing to do with state or indy school, its basic parenting. Although being privately educated mine prefer to travel in the helicopter dontcha know...

arf arf

Whatever your reasons, if you can afford it and like the school go for it. If it doesn't work out move them. Children are not trees, they're pretty portable.