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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that living in a very messy house does impact on children

326 replies

HeatingOnInJuly · 14/07/2020 21:11

I was thinking of this based on the "small ways your parents fucked you up" thread so it kind of stems from that

My parent's house was very messy - they would say it was normal family clutter, and that it was cosy and lived in, but I'm not sure I've ever been in a house quite like it since, so I think it must have been unusually messy

Door handles would fall off and were never fixed, ancient carpets would be ripped up and the floor would be left, bare cement, for months. Piles of washing everywhere. Nappies bagged and left on the floor for days, though they made it to the bin eventually. Kitchen was frankly dirty, with sides invisible due to stuff being piled on. Nobody ever put anything away after it was used, it would just be left. I didn't realise until well into adult hood that people would immediately put something back where it belonged after use, as a matter of course, everything from bottle opener to hoover was just left. Never sat at dining table due to being piled high with shit. Never taught how to do any chores or how to clean properly and manage laundry. Cupboards unusable as they were so jammed full of stuff. The furniture itself was good quality - plenty of art on the walls, sofas were expensive, good carpets when we had it - so I think this meant it passed as arty and bohemian but actually it was a tip

Never any clean uniform or Games kit which led to detentions at school. Yelled at for losing things when things inevitably got lost the minute they were set down. Difficult to study as the rooms were kept dark with the curtains closed. We were always late because of things getting mislaid. Clothes never hung up, just picked from a communal pile that lived in a walk in closet.

Friends would have been welcome, but by the age of about 8 I was too embarrassed to invite them,but of course I couldn't tell my parents that so I made excuses.

Parents had good jobs and were comfortably off, they just couldn't be bothered to clean or tidy as there was always something they'd rather be doing.

They insisted until they were blue in the face that it didn't matter, that life was too short to waste cleaning, that sort of thing, but actually all it resulted in was a dishevelled childhood where everything seemed out of control and chaotic. If I'd told them that the house was embarrassing they just would have laughed at me.

When I moved out and had my first child, I did what I knew and for about a year or two my flat was a mess. I didn't know how to keep things clean and organised, and I read things like that "dust if you must" poem that floats around and ignored 99% of housework because I was spending time with my child. But then I noticed the same thing happening especially when nursery started, being late because everything was lying everywhere or no clothes were washed or dry, "losing"new clothes or toys in the mess and only finding them once they were outgrown.... It made me realise that while obviously there's no need to go to extremes and scrub your loo with bleach and a toothbrush every day, there's a reason why being reasonably clean and tidy is seen as a desirable life skill. I had to teach myself how to manage a home and to do the most basic tasks thanks to the Internet

The state of my childhood home had a really negative effect on me, and I could see the same thing happening with my own child. no it's not neglect or abuse, but when your house is so messy that it's not a pleasant or comfortable place to be, or when the mess is causing regular stress and impacting on other ordinary bits of life, then your child probably would quite like you to do a bit of cleaning rather than a craft activity with them, certainly once they're a bit older. I think people are really fooling themselves if they think that level of mess doesn't impact on their children

OP posts:
LaurieMarlow · 15/07/2020 08:41

All 3 are pretty bad. My concern is people with more mess clutter never think it is bad as it is.

I think that’s a value judgement though.

DH grew up in a very cluttered house. He had no issues with it, neither did his sister. DS loves spending time in granny’s messy house. He’s messy himself.

A lot of it is personality and what you’re used to. I couldn’t live like that, but it’s not me we’re talking about.

madbirdlady22 · 15/07/2020 08:42

A clean and orderly home creates a calm and relaxed atmosphere.

It is hard to focus and concentrate, it is impossible to find anything, and the underlying feeling of chaos and disorder has an impact on children I am certain.

Security comes from knowing where everything is, a sense of calm comes from clutter free homes that are clean and together, being able to relax and have fun is only really possible when you are feeling comfortable and at ease, which is very difficult to do in a dirty place. I agree op, I think it must have had an impact to some degree, particularly if it affected your ability to socialise and have friends Flowers

StormBaby · 15/07/2020 08:48

My late mum was very tidy, by her standards I'm slacking, however I'm I credibly houseproud and clean constantly, it's just we have a lot of kids and pets so it's "lived in".

My stepchildren are growing up in a neglect situation; bare mattresses, no curtains, no clean clothes(one of them has been in the clothes they left my house in last weekend ever since, as seen on their daily tiktok updates, probably slept in them too Sad).
As a result of this I think it's really important that our house always has a clean kitchen and bathroom, fresh bedding, wardrobes full of clothes, plenty of food etc for when they are here each weekend. I want them to experience a normal family home at least 50‰ of the time.

LadyPrigsbottom · 15/07/2020 08:55

@StormBaby, that is neglect as you say Sad. Are you able to / have you reported?

I think @Mrbigb made a good point, that once you let tidying slide completely, it bleeds into lack of care in other areas. Not to say that everyone who isn't super tidy is neglectful though, obviously. But I definitely think a really dirty or messy house means you end up doing less full stop. It's probably a bit paragliding tbh. As much so as being a bit OTT with cleaning.

Pelleas · 15/07/2020 09:07

YANBU

My father is a hoarder. They moved into their house when I was a baby, and ever since then it has been filling up. When I was a child, my father was a workaholic and would spend every evening working at home (piles of paper in those pre-internet days). My mother belonged to various organisations, committees, school governors and the like and was never around - housework very rarely got done and all the while my father's junk was building up.

When I was about 10 they added a conservatory. We looked forward to sitting in it on summer evenings. Within a year it was so full of stuff you could barely cross the floor.

As pps have said, this was an embarrassment in terms of having friends over, but this wasn't the only negative impact. Living amid clutter is depressing. I was never 'taught' to be tidy, I had no example of putting things back in their rightful place after using them, or putting things away rather than piling them up on top of other things. I have had to self-teach all that, quite painfully.

To add insult to injury, when my sister and I began to realise this mess and clutter wasn't normal (through seeing more of other people's houses) my parents effectively blamed us because we weren't very tidy - we weren't, because we'd had no example of tidiness to follow, but a myth developed that if it were not for my sister and me, the house would be immaculate. This was nonsense, as our stuff was kept in our bedrooms and it was my father's crap that was everywhere, and spreading.

Now as adults my sister and I live in reasonably tidy houses. I have a lot of personal rules to stop clutter building up - I do have some hoarded stuff but it's all in cupboards out of sight. Since we left home (more than 20 years ago) their house has got worse and worse. You can't even get into my former bedroom now because it's full of stuff. My parents' health is failing and the thought of sooner or later having to sort it all out hangs like a sword over my sister's and my heads.

So, yes, I could not agree more with the OP. You don't have to live in a show home, but if you have children who must live in your home, please maintain basic standards of tidiness and cleanliness and if you are a hoarder, don't ignore it or deny it - seek the psychological help you need (because it is an illness) to control it.

StormBaby · 15/07/2020 09:08

@LadyPrigsbottom it's been reported hundreds of times. By us, by aunties, by friends, even concerned school friends mums. The kids have been bullied at school for being smelly, still nothing is done. In court DH was told to stop reporting it as its always going to be disregarded as malicious, but it 100‰ isn't made up. Nobody bothers to welfare check. They had never been to the dentist or had an eye test until I took them. The kids themselves have even called the nspcc 🙄 Mum is untouchable it seems.

Potatobug · 15/07/2020 09:10

I wonder why some of these parents didn’t hire a cleaner or housekeeper as I am sure most of them could have afforded it. I guess some people just don’t see dirt and mess.

Nearlyalmost50 · 15/07/2020 09:12

This is also my experience. Creativity requires space and peace for focus and thought. You often find ideas come when your mind confronts blankness, as though it rushes to fill the void in the same way mother nature abhors a vacuum

Individually this may be true. Collectively women have been held back by the fact they are held responsible (morally and practically) for the domestic sphere, so do more work in it, per day, than men, even if they are working outside the home or doing childcare.

When I'm writing/in a very creative phase or extremely busy at work, I find it hard to think about anything else, including what to cook for tea, whether the children have matching socks and so on. I just about get those things done because it would be awful not to do it and with that, I agree. But I don't mop the floor very often! The house often goes one notch down in terms of general mess and background dirt (I do always clean the loo and the kitchen, I did FlyLady a long time ago). This has mainly been solved by getting a cleaner although I don't have one right now, and having older children who make less mess.

I don't agree that only a very tidy house could produce a creative mind. Most creative, well-paid or successful men have some poor sod (usually their wife or a cleaner) cleaning up after them. They don't expend huge amounts of energy on tidying and household management at all.

sadwithkiddies · 15/07/2020 09:13

@stormBaby how very sad. Social services should be looking out for these children. Can you ask school their opinion and to make a referral if possible. Thankfully 50/50 will allow you & dh to meet their health needs etc.

Chosennone · 15/07/2020 09:17

I'm sort of relieved to read this. I posted on the other thread asking about scruffy/dirty homes.

Can I ask if anyone still visits their parents who lives like this? 15 years ago my DC did stay over, rarely but my parents put effort into creating a little baby/toddler room. The house was still dusty and cluttered, greasy kitchen etc. But things have got much worse as they have got older, so we stopped going around 10 years ago.

DM did ask me once why we never popped up and I just said I don't feel happy bringing my family to a chaotic environment. She just laughed and called me a snob!

There was a family emergency last year and I had to go Sad. I was saddened and distressed by the state of it. The sofa living area is ok and hoovered down the middle. The window is cleaned. The inside of the toilet and seat are cleaned and bleached. But everywhere else is forgotten or 'not seen' dried wee and poo at the bottom of the loo. Floors mopped in the middle only so dust and grime round the edge. The kitchen is over 40 years old. Cracked filthy worktops, orange walls and tiles, dropped socks in the corner with onion peel and crumbs on them.

I had to say something. I said it was squalid. Paid for a cleaner contacted social care etc. DM went along with the help for about a fortnight and then stopped it all. What annoys me now is the gas lighting. 'It isn't that bad, not everyone dusts every week etc' Angry

Lockdown has been a great excuse for not going around.

StormBaby · 15/07/2020 09:31

@sadwithkiddies school safeguarding have been involved numerous times. They just email their mum and never flag anything up to SS. I have copies of the emails. They literally just say "just as a heads up, xxx is being bullied at school because they smell and we've had calls from numerous parents". That's it. Nothing ever changes.

My stepson once earnt a fiver doing some jobs here with us and asked us to go to the poundshop before he went home so he could buy toothpaste and a toothbrush as they didn't have any. Sad

Pelleas · 15/07/2020 09:33

Can I ask if anyone still visits their parents who lives like this?

Yes, I still visit - if I want to see them I have to stay with them as I have moved to a different part of the country. The state of your parents' house sounds very similar, in the case of mine they simply can't get to many parts of it to clean and kitchen worktops are piled high with junk. Bits of it are clean but some things they just don't seem to see - the state of the oven, the interior doors, the fridge - covered in dirt. I've tried to tidy/clean things but my mum hovers over anxiously saying 'don't throw that away'.

I don't have any children - if I did I wouldn't be confident the house would be safe for them to stay in - full of trip hazards and goodness knows what everywhere - things like sharp scissors in any random pile - and you have to be very careful what you eat there and what you use to cook it as the fridge has all sorts of out-of-date fungus colonies lurking in its depths and the pans are rarely washed up properly. If my parents come here and try to help by washing up, we usually have to rewash the stuff ourselves because they've no concept of cleaning with any kind of thoroughness so you get stuff with bits of food left on it after it's been 'washed up'.

ShouldWeChangeTheBulb · 15/07/2020 09:36

I grew up in a messy home. It wasn’t as bad as the things on here but things like bedding weren’t done regularly and I could never find anything. I have definitely inherited some of those traits. My children always have clean uniform etc but I have a lot of shame about tidiness and I wish we were guest ready at all times. If I try and keep it too tidy it stresses me out and I end up shouting at the kids about making mess but the messiness and disorganisation stresses me out too.

LadyPrigsbottom · 15/07/2020 09:38

[quote LadyPrigsbottom]**@StormBaby, that is neglect as you say Sad. Are you able to / have you reported?

I think @Mrbigb made a good point, that once you let tidying slide completely, it bleeds into lack of care in other areas. Not to say that everyone who isn't super tidy is neglectful though, obviously. But I definitely think a really dirty or messy house means you end up doing less full stop. It's probably a bit paragliding tbh. As much so as being a bit OTT with cleaning.[/quote]
Paralyzing, not paragliding Blush.

@StormBaby, how awful! Poor kids Sad.

Emeraldshamrock · 15/07/2020 09:39

My parent's house improved as the 5 DC got older we took control of the cleaning, my younger Dsis is hyacinth naturally she reorganised the house once mam got use to it, they'd maintain it reasonably. I think it was overwhelming for her when we were younger.
I still wouldn't sit on the loo.

Mrbigb · 15/07/2020 09:43

I have another friend who grew up in what I would consider a chaotic looking house - loads of kids, professional parents, some kids homeschool but despite it looking like they’d just been ransacked it was messy rather than dirty and the kids were loved and are all very successful now - so it does depend. Messy doesn’t always equal neglect.

BigKnickers87 · 15/07/2020 09:45

I had a friend growing up whose house was a mess. We all hating going round and didn’t know where to sit amongst all the crap. It’s cruel that parents inflict that on their kids 😫😫

pangolina · 15/07/2020 09:47

My house was a tip growing up. Mess everywhere, not taught to wash properly etc. I once woke up during a sleepover to hear my friends gossiping about how messy and dirty my house was
My mum blamed me and my sister for it, and said we stressed her out with all our mess. Weirdly, now we're adults, my sister and I both have clean, tidy homes, and my mum's is a dirty cluttered mess. Apparently it is now the dog's fault for moulting too much! She frequently says there is no point to housework because you just have to keep doing it. She would rather sit on the internet all day.

Emeraldshamrock · 15/07/2020 09:51

so it does depend. Messy doesn’t always equal neglect
Well no not if your rich and your life is fulfilling otherwise with full time professional jobs and employed teacher's to home school your DC while you're working, but if you're living in filth and poor with no interests it is neglect.
Did your friends parents let food rot, bins over flow or was it messy with books? Filth equals neglect. DC being targeted due to their smell is neglect. I'm not justifying a bullies actions ever it is hard for the smelly kid.

isabellerossignol · 15/07/2020 09:54

@Potatobug

I wonder why some of these parents didn’t hire a cleaner or housekeeper as I am sure most of them could have afforded it. I guess some people just don’t see dirt and mess.
I don't think a cleaner would go near the type of houses being described here, even if the people could afford it. They couldn't clean without tidying up and hoarders don't want their stuff tidied away, they get very anxious about anyone touching their belongings. My sister didn't speak to me for three months once because I threw out a Christmas card that I picked up from her living room floor. It was about 8 years old (the sender had written the date inside) and was mishapen and stained where coffee had been split on it, and it had a knife stuck to it, covered in mouldy jam. I prised the knife off and washed it, and I put the card in the bin. She was apoplectic with rage, because she said that she was just about to do it. It had been on her floor for 8 years along with thousands of other things (including broken glass, and prescription drugs when she had a crawling baby at this stage) but she expected me to believe that just that moment she had decided to single out this one thing and bin it. Hmm

I also agree with a previous poster about blaming the children. I saw that happen a lot too. Ranting and getting angry at the children for being untidy when in actual fact they had never witnessed an adult do anything other than throw things on the floor instead of in a bin.

Itsarattrap · 15/07/2020 09:59

Yes it does. Siblings at a previous school never had friends round. People wouldn’t let their kids go a second time because it was shambolic to the point of being unhygienic. A couple of bolder people had broached it with their mum but she just couldn’t see the issue. Kind lady in other areas, rescued animals, lots of volunteering. Different priorities I suppose but a huge negative impact on the children.

TheTurnOfTheScrew · 15/07/2020 09:59

it does affect the children, absolutely
I grew up in a messy, dirty, poorly maintained house. Nothing ever worked or got replaced when it broke. I was far too ashamed to bring people round, which inhibited friendships - having mates round really cements friendships.

Also, I never learned to look after a home - it wasn't until DH moved in that I had a mop, as I'd never seen anyone use one to clean a floor! I still really struggle to keep my house in a reasonable state as I didn't grow up putting things away, or even shutting drawers or cupboard doors when they'd been opened. I do however know that it's important to keep things pleasant enough that both my family who live here and guests can be comfortable and relax, and so I do fight against my slovenly nature.

Sinuhe · 15/07/2020 09:59

I grew up in the opposite home. (so rather than hoarding it was germ phobia/ cleaning OCD) Everything was super organized and clean. Crumbs/ food beside the plate could get you into trouble. Toys had to be tidied up as soon as I finished- all organised in a specific way. No toys left out overnight. Dusting, hoovering and mopping my bedroom every other day, from the age of 12. Clean clothes every day, sometimes twice as not allowed to sit down with dirty outside clothes....
This has impacted me greatly, I didn't clean/ tidy anything once I left home. I was scared to do it wrong without inspections
and help to get it right. So my I lived in very messy conditions.

I don't want my children to suffer in any way. I think my home is clean, and reasonably tidy. DC do help out with chores for pocket money and will keep their bedrooms tidy on their own terms...
A good healthy medium is probably the best way, because either end of the spectrum is physically and mentality harmful!

Emeraldshamrock · 15/07/2020 10:05

@TheTurnOfTheScrew I still constantly leaves cupboard doors and drawers open, it is mostly subconsciously. I walk into the kitchen and this a poltergeist has been.
I even put labels inside the cupboards to say shut the door. Simple battles. Grin

Pelleas · 15/07/2020 10:07

I don't think a cleaner would go near the type of houses being described here, even if the people could afford it

Indeed, no. As far as I know cleaners will clean, but they won't tidy up piles of clutter. In my case, my father was very, very careful with his money. He could be generous at times - he wasn't some scrooge figure - my sister and I got the usual sorts of birthday and Christmas presents people got in the 80s and we had holidays, days out etc. - but in everyday life he'd never spend a penny more than absolutely necessary. Anything we had to buy, such as furniture, appliances, food, he would always buy the cheapest, most basic, unbranded version no matter how ugly or bland. Things like buying lunch in a cafe at the zoo were an absolute no-no - we'd always take our own food. I don't think that's a bad thing in itself - although I sometimes longed for nicer things, I understood his philosophy - but a cleaner would definitely have been seen as an unnecessary extravagance.

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