To think that living in a very messy house does impact on children

[HeatingOnInJuly]

I was thinking of this based on the "small ways your parents fucked you up" thread so it kind of stems from that

My parent's house was very messy - they would say it was normal family clutter, and that it was cosy and lived in, but I'm not sure I've ever been in a house quite like it since, so I think it must have been unusually messy

Door handles would fall off and were never fixed, ancient carpets would be ripped up and the floor would be left, bare cement, for months. Piles of washing everywhere. Nappies bagged and left on the floor for days, though they made it to the bin eventually. Kitchen was frankly dirty, with sides invisible due to stuff being piled on. Nobody ever put anything away after it was used, it would just be left. I didn't realise until well into adult hood that people would immediately put something back where it belonged after use, as a matter of course, everything from bottle opener to hoover was just left. Never sat at dining table due to being piled high with shit. Never taught how to do any chores or how to clean properly and manage laundry. Cupboards unusable as they were so jammed full of stuff. The furniture itself was good quality - plenty of art on the walls, sofas were expensive, good carpets when we had it - so I think this meant it passed as arty and bohemian but actually it was a tip

Never any clean uniform or Games kit which led to detentions at school. Yelled at for losing things when things inevitably got lost the minute they were set down. Difficult to study as the rooms were kept dark with the curtains closed. We were always late because of things getting mislaid. Clothes never hung up, just picked from a communal pile that lived in a walk in closet.

Friends would have been welcome, but by the age of about 8 I was too embarrassed to invite them,but of course I couldn't tell my parents that so I made excuses.

Parents had good jobs and were comfortably off, they just couldn't be bothered to clean or tidy as there was always something they'd rather be doing.

They insisted until they were blue in the face that it didn't matter, that life was too short to waste cleaning, that sort of thing, but actually all it resulted in was a dishevelled childhood where everything seemed out of control and chaotic. If I'd told them that the house was embarrassing they just would have laughed at me.

When I moved out and had my first child, I did what I knew and for about a year or two my flat was a mess. I didn't know how to keep things clean and organised, and I read things like that "dust if you must" poem that floats around and ignored 99% of housework because I was spending time with my child. But then I noticed the same thing happening especially when nursery started, being late because everything was lying everywhere or no clothes were washed or dry, "losing"new clothes or toys in the mess and only finding them once they were outgrown.... It made me realise that while obviously there's no need to go to extremes and scrub your loo with bleach and a toothbrush every day, there's a reason why being reasonably clean and tidy is seen as a desirable life skill. I had to teach myself how to manage a home and to do the most basic tasks thanks to the Internet

The state of my childhood home had a really negative effect on me, and I could see the same thing happening with my own child. no it's not neglect or abuse, but when your house is so messy that it's not a pleasant or comfortable place to be, or when the mess is causing regular stress and impacting on other ordinary bits of life, then your child probably would quite like you to do a bit of cleaning rather than a craft activity with them, certainly once they're a bit older. I think people are really fooling themselves if they think that level of mess doesn't impact on their children

[Italiangreyhound]

HeatingOnInJuly thank you for sharing and I am so sorry you experienced this. Well done for doing things differently.

[DisobedientHamster]

DH's parents' house gave me nightmares. It would trigger DS's OCD terribly and we stopped taking him there as he'd ritualise horribly after even just a short visit (handwashing, showering, hand gel, rubbing soap all over his clothes and/or wanting to change clothes as he felt dirty).

DD picked up lice there once and she has long, straight, fine hair. Took about 3 treatments and a month worth of nightly nit combing to get rid. I was furious.

BIL lost it and now lives in a 1-bed council flat that he'll probably one day lose due to being so filthy. He won't engage with any help or bother to clean anything so no one can help him.

DH was left not bathing for days now he showers at least once a day.

[Smallsteps88]

I don’t know why people keep saying things like “either extreme is bad” on this thread as if the only alternative to having a dirty house is to be constantly cleaning under your children whilst ignoring them. Why do people feel the need to say this? OP wasn’t suggesting everyone should have immaculate homes.

[Notcontent]

It’s definitely true that having a clean and tidy house gives children a sense of well-being and security.

[SummerCherry]

Yeah I don’t get why people are saying ‘my house was so tidy it was AWFUL’!

I’d have loved my clothes to be washed, a clean bath and not have to wade through dishes!

I now keep a really tidy house, I hardly clean, and my mum often makes passive aggressive comments about ‘oh you do like it clean’! As if it’s a bad thing? I’m tempted to say ‘yes it’s because I don’t cause chaos, be sloppy and not give a fig’ - but I don’t. I hardly clean at all because I’m just organised, everything has a place that is all. It’s a really nice place for people to visit and for me and my kids to be in. I’m quite proud of that.

[alwayscrashinginthesamecar1]

I'm fairly tidy, but hate cleaning! I take a little and often approach, and have trained my husband and son to take a fairly proactive approach, although my son can't quite seem to master wiping down the sink properly!

But I don't do clutter. My mum always ran a clean house, but when my parents split up my dad became a hoarder, it became obvious he had no idea how to cook , clean or look after himself, so I determined that wouldn't happen to any child of mine. By the time dad died his apartment was a total disgrace, packed to the rafters with all kinds of crap. It took six of us a week to clear it out, multiple skips required. We threw out all kinds of valuable stuff as we couldn't find it in the mess and didn't have time to go through everything properly. It was the worst week of my life, and I wouldn't do that to my worst enemy. So please, if you have hoarding tendencies, please consider who will clear it when you die, don't inflict it on your child. So yes, I do think this level of mess is abusive, I'm just grateful I never had to live with it, and I really feel for all of you that did.

[HermioneMakepeace]

@BrummyMum1There is something like this! It's called Fly Lady. I can highly recommend it. And it's especially good for people with depression who live in cluttered home. Not saying that is you, but for the benefit of anyone else reading.

I can honestly say that Fly Lady has been life-changing for me.

[DustyMaiden]

My house was a tip growing up. I have OCD. I do think the pendulum swings from side to side.

[TomBradysLeftKneecap]

My best friend in secondary school lived in a house like this and I still remember being absolutely horrified about the smell (in retrospect, from excessive smoking) and the mess the first time I ever went round. Probably even the second and third times too tbh. And her parents swore like sailors which didn't happen in my house so was a whole new thing to me.

I also knew that she didn't smell on the day to day (because she washed her own clothes every night I would later learn), was extremely kind and generous and was my best friend who I could tell anything to. She made me a better person and I will always be glad she was my best friend.

[Packingsoapandwater]

But the truly creative people I know - the ones who actually make beautiful things as opposed to saying they want to make beautiful things - are disciplined and, yes, tidy

This is also my experience. Creativity requires space and peace for focus and thought. You often find ideas come when your mind confronts blankness, as though it rushes to fill the void in the same way mother nature abhors a vacuum.

My childhood home was very clean and tidy, and I used to adore the messy homes of the more arty bohemian parents of my friends. But I came to realise that nothing disrupts your flow like rancid butter on toast because it's been left out night after night on the worktop. Nothing causes stress like not being able to find a pen or an empty bit of table when you need to note a solution down.

Your mind can only process so much, and it's a question of what you want to use that capacity for? Finding socks in disorganised laundry or working on a creative solution?

[BrutusMcDogface]

My mum was a neat freak (the kind who would tidy up around me), but she never trusted us to do a good enough job to help; she’d rather do it “properly“ herself.

I’m the absolute opposite, and this thread is mortifying. I’m trying so, so hard to sort it for my kids but they still have to scrabble around for matching socks etc etc. I’m glad I read this though, as it’s made me more determined to get it sorted for their sakes.

[Bluntness100]

I think this thread focuses on the impact of kids in growing up in chaotic environments, which is clearly and undoubtedly neglectful, but the flip side is any adult who keeps a home like that is likely to be suffering from mental health issues.

We all know it’s unpleasant, and deep down anyone in that environment knows it is bad, and saying it’s because of my parents, my husband, my children, is a way of avoiding dealing with it, because it’s a shared responsibility.

As adults cleaning and tidying is not complex. It is something that’s easy to do physically and intellectually. However it is not easy if mentally unwell, which is likely the cause if anyone grew up in this type of environment.

It’s terribly sad that people live like this, but I wouldn’t say it was because the parents just didn’t care, more they were mentally unable to deal with it, and as such brought their children up in neglectful chaotic environments.

[Velvian]

@Fawnandwren, putting stuff in the dishwasher and laying the table when visiting a sibling with a new baby is just a normal thing to do.

If it took you 2 minutes, it wasn't that bad. Be nicer to your SIL.

[Shaunthesheep34]

My house was very messy growing up, mould growing on unwashed plates, the bathroom floor a sea of clothes, coke bottles( and other stuff) littering all floors so you kicked them about the house, oven and grill and hob so filthy it's a wonder I never got food poisoning growing up. My mum and step dad both didnt work were heavy smokers so everything covered in brown sticky nicotine as they both smoked in the house and we were allowed any windows open ever ( even in our rooms) as my mum hated draughts. As they both didnt work there was never any money to decorate the house, it was always dingy looking. It affected me growing up as I couldn't bring friends round, I was too embarrassed but I always had clean school clothes ( even though they stank of smoke) so looked tidy going out, now I like to keep a tidy house by making sure I do housework everyday and my kids regularly have all different kids over for sleepovers , which I was too embarrassed to ask when I was younger. My home is tidy but not obsessively so, tidy enough that anybody can visit anytime without being embarrassed.

[Shaunthesheep34]

That supposed to say NOT allowed any windows open, apologies

[FortunesFave]

I can still remember the smell of one of my friend's homes. It absolutely reeked and was full of things...mess everywhere.

Looking back, her poor Mother was deeply depressed.

[Emeraldshamrock]

@BrutusMcDogface I know it is hard but I'll never forget the trauma of searching out socks, pencils, school tie every morning and fighting my sister's on who'd wear the matching pair with our skirt if we found a matching pair.
My DC has tons of socks now.

[kavalkada]

I grew up in a fairly clean and tidy and my husband grew up in a hoarders home. Things were so bad that there was no place to sleep, so he slept for years on the balcony.

My mum taught me to clean from the very early age - by the time I was nine I was able to do it on professional lever (never taught my brother).

I like things clean and organized, but that doesn't mean I don't let my children to play. I have a six year old and one year old and they're allowed to do what ever they want (within reason). If you visited yesterday around noon my flat would be a total tip because they brought all the bedding from every room in the dining room and made a castle around our dining table. I'm sorry I don't have pictures because it looked rather well. My little girl is in the phase of throwing things so all I do is pick up the books and kitchen utensils she threw on the floor.

But buy the time they go to bed everything is in its place and I just love that piece of calm after nine pm where everything is just perfect and I can relax. I love waking up in the morning in clean and tidy house.

I started teaching my boy to clean when he was three and he knows toys are his responsibility and have to be off the floor by the time he goes to bed. We have a huge chest where he keeps most of them so not much organizing there. He knows that dirty clothes go in the laundry bag in bathroom and that the only place to eat is dining room table and that when he finishes he has to take his plate and utensils and take them to kitchen. I didn't have to teach him that because those are the things they do in kindergarten and he started doing them at home.

For me, it is clean house, clean mind. And that is the reason I stay away from my husband's hoarder room.

[TreestumpsAndTrampolines]

YANBU. My home growing up was constantly in a state of DIY. Heaps of stuff everywhere, dining table (when we had one) covered with stuff, so we normally ate in the living room, where a small square of floor would be cleared so we could put the serving dishes down like a picnic.

Sounds terrible to me now I say it out loud, but it was completely normal to us.

But yes, as a result, I do find it hard to keep my own place tidy - I don't have the habits, and I realise that because I don't have them down, I'm not passing them onto my own kids, who in turn are going to have the same problems as me.

I don't think I'll ever get to the stage of a tidy home with sides wiped every day, but I would like at least to have the kids be able to keep their rooms clean - dirty washing in the basket, rubbish in the bin, cups and plates brought down each evening etc. I think that is something to aim for while they're young enough to be trained.

[LakieLady]

I grew up in a home that was clean but cluttered. My parents were scrupulous about kitchen hygiene, the bathroom was always clean but there was stuff everywhere.

Partly it was down to it being a small 3-bed flat and partly due to insufficient storage space. The flat was built in the early 1960s and fitted kitchens, built-in wardrobes etc simply weren't a thing then. There were a few built in cupboards, but none of them were big enough to hold things like ironing board or brooms, so stuff like that didn't have a "home" and was just propped up against a wall.

And my parents had lots of "stuff": books, art materials, clothes, gadgets, bonkers things like a 12-place setting canteen of cutlery, that never got used (I was always told it was silver, and was disappointed, when I cleared out their house after they died, to find it was plate!).

I never had friends back, but that was also partly because we moved when I left primary and my secondary school wasn't local, plus it was posh, all my school friends came from well-off families and I was embarrassed by the rough area (think burned-out cars and racist graffiti) I lived in.

Otoh, I had a boyfriend whose dad must have had OCD. He wouldn't have friends to his house because of all the bizarre rules around cleanliness and tidiness. He loved coming to mine, because it was so chilled by comparison, and you were allowed to put your feet on the furniture.

[LaurieMarlow]

It is worth distinguishing between ...

Serious hoarding issues that are MH concerns.

Unhygienic environments

More mess and clutter than the norm.

The first two are very problematic. The third may or may not be depending on the personalities of those involved.

[isabellerossignol]

@LaurieMarlow

It is worth distinguishing between ...

Serious hoarding issues that are MH concerns.

Unhygienic environments

More mess and clutter than the norm.

The first two are very problematic. The third may or may not be depending on the personalities of those involved.

I would agree with this. I grew up in a house with what I consider to be too much clutter, and I didn't like it. Neither did my dad, but my mum liked her clutter, I suppose she found it comforting. And he loved her and didn't want to argue. However, the kitchen was clean, laundry was done, we never went without, it was just messy. It didn't harm me, I just didn't much like it.

[piscean10]

I didnt grow up in the UK, and we had live in house help where it was the norm. Everything was scrubbed and spotless. I would get home from school and my uniform was washed, ironed and back in my cupboard by the evening. My parents both worked full time. Our house was spotless but so was everyone else's and it was just our normal. Alongside the house helpers, we were taught how to clean properly.
I struggled alot when I moved to the UK and realised people dont clean their homes everyday. I mean as in full cleaning every day. It's just ingrained in me to clean up all the time. I dont find it particularly stressful to do it as well.
What I do find uncomfortable is untidy/unkempt homes.

[Emeraldshamrock]

@LaurieMarlow I am not sure. All 3 are pretty bad. My concern is people with more mess clutter never think it is bad as it is.
It is the lack of organisation and routine if the kitchen table is used for laundry, paperwork, place to eat, do homework mixed into one at the same time.
You can't clean clutter.

[Mrbigb]

Agreed. I have a close friend who’s house is a complete pigsty. They just don’t care. If you want to sit down you have to move dirty plates, magazines, clothes off the chair or sofa just to find space.
I think it’s awful for their kid to live like that and it’s not just the house - they’re lazy with everything which means the kid can do what he likes, stays up to late which affects his learning at school, he doesn’t get enough exercise, can eat and drink whatever crap he likes is overweight at 9, is in screens or computer games a lot.
That kind of messiness bleeds into everything else.
It’s a lack of pride or effort or motivation. It’s not that hard to keep a place clean even if it’s u tidy.
Not fair on the kids who can’t ever find what they need