What’s the problem with Trans?

[Karenista]

Posting for traffic:
Can someone please take the time to explain to me what the issue is with trans women? Or trans rights in general?

I consider myself a feminist, but since reading all the posts about publicly ‘coming out as GC’, I now feel... almost... not feminist enough because I believe in trans rights.

Where’s the middle ground? Or am I now going to feel alienated from ‘GC feminists?’

TorkTorkBam Yes, that's exactly what I said .

I am assuming OP's user name does not imply any goadiness-just a happy coincidence.

I’m afraid I’m not here for an argument
And I'm afraid I don't believe you

But why change laws which affect millions of people when you basically have a problem with the school?

On the subject of twitter, there is a transwoman on twitter using the handle clibearian who seems interesting. Been following her for a couple of hours.

I would have no problem sharing a female space with a genuine trans woman, but I would obviously have a problem with a man pretending to be trans to access that space.

I too would not have a problem with a genuine transwoman accessing female toilets.
But I do have a problem with them competing against women and I do have a problem with them being my 'female' representative.
I also have a problem with transwomen providing services to vulnerable women who may reject those services if not provided by biological women.
As a result, I have a big problem with TRAs insisting they are women because all the protections around the above issues are based on the word 'women'.

@Witchcraftandhokum

The problem here is the argument is so definite. Because a minority of people will want to access prisons, refuges etc all trans rights should be eradicated. All my nephew (now niece) wanted was to wear a girls school uniform and be reffered to by her chosen pronouns. She was told this couldn't happen.

There is no proposition on the table at all to 'eradicate all trans rights'.

If the GRA isn't reformed, trans people won't lose any rights.

Many trans people don't support changes to the GRA, so it's not about trans people vs transphobes.

The 'minority' argument doesn't wash. If we could identify the 'minority' who will cause harm to women in prisons or refuges, then we could exclude them. Because we can't, those institutions should be sex-segregated.

@CuriousaboutSamphire I honestly have no idea what you are on about. Trans women also often compete in women’s sport. As do intersex women. The discrimination that exists against female athletes who’s bodies don’t conform to the expectations of people with tyrannical notions of sex is appalling; e.g. what happened to Caster Semenya.

Theres not a problems with trans people just with the people who object to their very existence- there’s a lot of them on MN.

I don't believe that transwomen should be competing in the female category in sports segregated by sex.

I refuse the label cis

I worry about children transitioning young

I will always call someone by their preferred pronoun and I don't believe that trans people should exist I just feel there has to be middle ground which doesn't involve taking away from women

I too would not have a problem with a genuine transwoman accessing female toilets.

Well, I would. A transwoman is not female and shouldn't be accessing female spaces. Anyway, out of interest, what is a 'genuine transwoman'?

@Witchcraftandhokum

The problem here is the argument is so definite. Because a minority of people will want to access prisons, refuges etc all trans rights should be eradicated. All my nephew (now niece) wanted was to wear a girls school uniform and be reffered to by her chosen pronouns. She was told this couldn't happen.

What about the girls who didn't want to share a changing room or dorm with your niece? Or don't you give a fuck about their boundaries?

Laws and regulations aren't made on the basis of what individuals are comfortable with though. It doesn't matter if I'm happy for trans women to use women's toilets/changing rooms or even participate in women's sports, be on women only short lists etc.

The safest and most equitable thing for women is that these things continue to be sex segregated, regardless of what individual women would be comfortable with.

But the 'I wouldn't mind' perspective does back the argument for third, mixed sexed spaces, that could be used by anyone, including those who don't mind which sex they share a bathroom, sporting event or short list with.

@Witchcraftandhokum

You yourself misgendered your relative on this thread by calling them him, her, niece and nephew over your last few posts so surely you understand how other people find the subject confusing and stressful when it comes to using the 'right' terms.

I would never jump on someone for the accidental slip up 'misgendering' you displayed on this thread because I know it was meant with no malice, but unfortunately people making the same error as you who are gender critical are labelled TERFs and attacked.

The "but only a minority of people would do xyz" argument is problematic because all the men i choose to associate with are kind, decent and respectful of women.

Therefore they are happy to use different toilets to women without making it about them, saying "well i would never attack a woman so making me use a different toilet is basically calling me a rapist". It's not, its a numbers game that is based on maximum reduction of risk.

Everything else aside i am really sorry your relative has been so low they have harmed themselves, that's awful and i didn't want to just not mention it

I see Lemonade is here with great advice again - see Paris Lees.

Paris Lees is a trans woman who thinks being wolf-whistled, cat-called and eye fucked on an escalator is a cool part of being a woman! Paris had a difficult upbringing, she was apparently bullied, sexually abused by gay men as a boy and ended up in prison.

I’m not sure following over-sexualised trans women like Playboy model Munroe Bergdorf or Paris Lees will give you much insight in to the real trans experience.

[quote Bizawit]@CuriousaboutSamphire I honestly have no idea what you are on about. Trans women also often compete in women’s sport. As do intersex women. The discrimination that exists against female athletes who’s bodies don’t conform to the expectations of people with tyrannical notions of sex is appalling; e.g. what happened to Caster Semenya.[/quote]
You mean Caster Semenya who is male?

I wish Mumsnet could just stop hosting threads like this now. The question has been answered a thousand times already! Why can't it be locked and a list of all the previous similar threads and their answers be linked?

Bizawit Caster Semenya isn't trans. She has a sexual development disorder which there is an awful lot (too much, I think) information about in the public domain.

Semenya competing in women's sports has been and remains complex, fraught and the latest position by the sporting bodies are that she needs to take a testosterone suppressant if she wishes to continue competing in women's sports.

@orangesandapplesandpearsohmy

Theres not a problems with trans people just with the people who object to their very existence- there’s a lot of them on MN.

Have you actually seen this

Or is it just what you think

@Chicchicchicchiclana

I wish Mumsnet could just stop hosting threads like this now. The question has been answered a thousand times already! Why can't it be locked and a list of all the previous similar threads and their answers be linked?

Because despite most active posters in this area sticking to the FWR boards, several times each week someone new pops up on AIBU to ask what the big deal is...

Sorry I totally read the title as "Whats the problem with trains" and typed a whole post ranting about Nothern Rails shitty service before I re-read the title .

Also nothing wrong with trans people.
We just need to remember facts and reality matter.

titchy she didn't want to use the female charging rooms, toilets etc.. The school offered her the disabled facilities to use which she was happy to.

Backseatcookers I did not misgender her. I used nephew in the way she does, as in school as the head would not allow her to use female pro-noums. She does not feel that she was fully recognised as 'she' when she made her suicide attempt, she relates that dark time as being called 'he' and refers to herself as 'he' during that time. I guess it's maybe a way of distancing herself from it now.

Rufus, I don't think they think that at all, they just want people to believe it

@titchy I’m not sure why the FWR boards are, but would you prefer I ask for the thread to be moved?