What’s the problem with Trans?

[Karenista]

Posting for traffic:
Can someone please take the time to explain to me what the issue is with trans women? Or trans rights in general?

I consider myself a feminist, but since reading all the posts about publicly ‘coming out as GC’, I now feel... almost... not feminist enough because I believe in trans rights.

Where’s the middle ground? Or am I now going to feel alienated from ‘GC feminists?’

I'm absolutely not ignoring people posting on here. You will see in my post I advised the OP to get both sides of the story.

Yes, third spaces that can be used by people who don't want to access the space that accords to their biological sex, and also their allies as they wish.

@Witchcraftandhokum

Milleniumhaswalledgarden please see my last post.

No evidence whatsoever then. Okay.

The whole 'not letting transwomen into female toilets is just like when black people weren't allowed to use the same toilets as white people' is such utter bullshit.

Segregation in toilets already happens - we segregate by sex already anyway. My husband is a lovely guy and isn't a threat to women in any way, but guess what, he ain't allowed to use the ladies!

Milleniumhaswalledgarden Sorry, what are you asking for evidence of?

You will see in my post I advised the OP to get both sides of the story

This - MN tends to be a bit of an echo chamber on "trans" as OP puts it, so definitely listen to both "sides" for a more balanced view, follow some trans people for example on social media (Paris Lees off top of my head, others too) see the issues, see both sides instead of just one.
And no, I don't mean extremists before anyone starts, just your every day, average normal trans person

Trans people are just as deserving of rights as anyone else and discrimination is always wrong but I have yet to see a reason as to why this means that they should be considered to legally be the opposite sex. Why?

There is no problem with trans people as such.

The problem is the way anybody who dares to question any part of their beliefs is treated.

I did one of those “coming out as GC” posts. You can look it up if you want to. It’s about how I told a friend what I thought and how that friend went totally fucking mental even though I said nothing hateful, transphobic, bigoted or even untrue.

Women should be able to ask questions about things that concern us.

No one else in the UK is allowed to legally falsify their birth certificate. Trans people do actually already have that right, but need to go through a process to be able to do that. So they actually already have more rights that other people. They are now campaigning to be able to legally falsify their birth certificate just by filling in a form with zero gatekeeping at all, and are claiming that not being able to do this is a massive breach of their human rights.

Why would you not have a problem with it is the real question? Not Trans people in themselves but some of their demands which clash with women's rights. I don't understand how any woman doesn't have a problem with it

Paris Lees??? Come on, you can do better than that!

There are so many law abiding, uncontraversial trans people out there. Why go for the people who have something in their past that could prove anything us nasty old TERFS say?

It's almost as though you want to highlight the issues GC women want to talk about!

I wouldnt say its mainly about dressing rooms or toilets tbh. I think thats kind of the thin end of the wedge. I personally prefer single sex toilets, but have never had issue with the idea of transwomen using them particularly, but if transwomen using womens toilets also means that transwomen can compete in womens sports, or be included on all-women-shortlists, or get moved to womens prisons or we cannot choose a natal female for intimate care in hospitals or bodysearches by police etc, or that we actually have to BELIEVE what they believe and that its offensive to use the word women when talking about the female reproductive system, then those are my issues

Trans women already use women’s spaces!!!!

Loads of people on here will say that they only have a problem with transwomen using the ladies' bogs/changing rooms. Its a lie though. Look up transphobia in the dictionary and you'll see a link to mumsnet.

Bellesausage Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I should have said "In my opinion..." and yes, that is what I truly think. It's based on experience. My trans nephew attempted suicide because his school life was made so difficult.

My DD does an (Olympic) sport that is gender segregated from age 7 in regional and national competitions (because there is a pretty big difference in physical strength and size between boys and girls). The formal competitions start at age 7.

Transgender competitors can compete in the gender they identify as, not their sex, up until age 18. After 18 I believe they do hormone testing etc like any olympic sport. She has only just turned 7 during the pandemic so hasn’t competed yet in the nationals but pre-pandemic she was the best in her age group for both boys and girls at her club (which trains kids for the national quad) so I am anticipating that she will compete at the nationals next year. It feels pretty unfair that she could expect to compete against someone who is male sex, particularly as they approach puberty. To be brutally honest, I’m hoping it doesn’t happen 😕

I'm talking about the level of hatred, by sheeple who decide they're TERF's with absolutely no experience of the lives of trans-people

A woman doesn't know and will never know what it's like to be a transwoman as they are women.
If I say the opposite then I am considered a bigot with privilege. Am I supposed to be embarrassed and apologetic that my body has periods and the ability to have babies?
Women don't need men or transwomen defining womanhood because we know what it means to be a woman.
We have the emotional intelligence to understand that a trans person would have had an easier life if they weren't trans but the activists seem to want to an womanhood. Even the word woman is considered problematic when half the world is a woman ffs.

See, I am a transrich person.

I in no way have the funds in my bank account to back up my claim to my identity but dammit, I FEEL like a rich person.

By not allowing me to buy the things a rich person can buy the shops are actually denying my identity and this is severely damaging to both my mental health and my concept of self.

In order to rectify this I demand the right to be allowed to buy the same items as other rich people, just within my means. So, where Richard Branson can buy an island for £10m, I should be allowed to buy it for £10.50 as to deny me would be invalidating my identity as a rich person.

Trans women already use women’s spaces!!!!
So? Toilets aren't generally policed and I think I most women are fine with sharing with tw who just want to live their lives. However, if a bearded bloke is using them I want to retain the right to challenge him or ask him to leave if he's making women uncomfortable. This doesn't seem unreasonable.

The problem here is the argument is so definite. Because a minority of people will want to access prisons, refuges etc all trans rights should be eradicated. All my nephew (now niece) wanted was to wear a girls school uniform and be reffered to by her chosen pronouns. She was told this couldn't happen.

All my nephew (now niece) wanted was to wear a girls school uniform and be reffered to by her chosen pronouns. She was told this couldn't happen.

Well my problem there is that there are girls and boys uniforms in the first place. Just have a uniform and let kids pick whatever they want to wear. Fully behind that.

The chosen pronouns is tricker - we train kids from the moment they start to speak that 'he' is for boys and 'she' is for girls - it's very hard to change that speech pattern for individuals.

Yes @Bizawit we do knw, we have eyes!

If you read round here for a while you'll find a lot of posters, I'm one of them, who came here and said exactly that and got a lot of more or less robust repsonses that added up to - think about the difference between transwomen, individuals that we all know that use the ladies and TRA actions.

Transwomen use the ladies loos. Women see them and, being knd and all that, think "transwoman, be nice!, maybe smile a bit, but don't make a fuss, poor thing". We all move on with our lives.

So you see why it is the ladies loos that TRAs always distil the argument down to. So they can say "But transwomen already use the ladies loos!"

What they don't say, or want discussed, is everything else.

Start with an easy one - male bodied individuals in women's sports!

Women say no! Biology!

TRAs shout TERF and some poor science is wheeled out!

You only have to watch transwomen compete against women to know. However partisan you are, however nice and inclusive you want to be, however little you actually care... any picture, any sport.

A few rapists should be allowed into women's prisons because your nephew's school is sexist?

Er, how about we campaign for gender neutral school uniforms instead?