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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Drag, drag, drag....

501 replies

Yarboosucks · 14/07/2020 14:43

I have never been a particularly sensitive or active feminist, but all this drag rubbish on TV is getting to me. How at a time when rightly you could not broadcast in black face or similar is it OK to mock or at best caricature women so ridiculously?

OP posts:
Quaagars · 19/08/2020 18:05

In your opinion.
Not in mine.

It's not an opinion that women have been oppressed by men because of their womanhood

I was referring to the fact that it is opinion that it is "woman face" - not women oppression.
It is my opinion that it's not "woman face" and find the notion that some think it is ridiculous.
We're all entitled to our opinions and what we do or don't get offended by though.

Quaagars · 19/08/2020 18:09

@Notimeforaname - I hear you but raise you the inimitable thread where OP virulently objected to children drawing rainbows 🌈 in lockdown and putting in window

Oh God, I remember that - it started off funny but there was one poster on there who was adamant that by putting a rainbow in your window meant putting your kids in danger and "they" would know there was children there and you'd be putting yourself as a target Sad
Who the fuck they meant by "they" was never clarified, it was mindblowingly prejudiced and scare mongering Sad

Aridane · 19/08/2020 18:13

Oh yes - I forgot about the poster worried about the Pied Piper of Hamlin / whatever on the loose

Aridane · 19/08/2020 18:13

(hunting down rainbows)

aSofaNearYou · 19/08/2020 18:27

@Quaggars I don't have a problem with you not being personally offended by it, that's great for you, but I do thing it's awful to describe it as "ridiculous". If you concede that women have been equally as oppressed by men as black people, then why on Earth would you find it ridiculous to talk about "womanface", but not "blackface"? Would you think it ridiculous to be offended by that?The double standard is very apparent and it is appalling that you would throw out the word ridiculous when you would never think to say the same thing to a black person about blackface because not everyone is offended by it.

SingleHandSue · 19/08/2020 18:32

@ABingThing

there is a difference in that “women’s” clothes and make up are gender, not biology.

Yes, and the reason so many women have fought against gender stereotyping is because those stereotypes are the expression of misogyny.

Make up, clothing styles, hair styles, even whether you shave your genitals - these are part of the biologically unnecessary expectations of women.

Add in demeanor, 'know your place', bitchy, hysterical, emotion-driven rather than logic-led, not as smart, over reacting, 'hun', prude, frigid, slut, loving all things soft, sparkly, fluffy and fucking unicorns, then you get into the realms of how men justify to themselves not giving women equal pay, or the right to vote, or how they used to justify marital rape, how they still justify FGM and the abortion of female foetuses, etc.

I don't care if a drag performer can do exquisite make up - I care that he's doing it because he thinks it screams 'woman'. Add in fishy, bitchy and the rest of it, and it's parody/mockery.

When drag artists stop worrying about their make up and start demonstrating and showing understanding of the effect of unpaid caring roles, lower pay, fewer opportunities, the damage from childbirth, FGM, the disproportionate number of DV cases, the rapes and sexual assaults whose perpetrators will never face conviction, then I'll stop seeing it as parody and believe they see women as more than one dimensional fodder for their act.

Since the reality of being female isn't very entertaining, I won't hold my breath.

I’m standing up to applaud this 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Notimeforaname · 19/08/2020 18:43

Aridane
I hear you but raise you the inimitable thread where OP virulently objected to children drawing rainbows 🌈 in lockdown and putting in window
. I'd almost forgotten about that one😂 I for sure thought it was a joke at first.

Notimeforaname · 19/08/2020 18:50

When drag artists stop worrying about their make up and start demonstrating and showing understanding of the effect of unpaid caring roles, lower pay, fewer opportunities, the damage from childbirth, FGM, the disproportionate number of DV cases, the rapes and sexual assaults whose perpetrators will never face conviction, then I'll stop seeing it as parody and believe they see women as more than one dimensional fodder for their act

But that's not entertaining 😂
Ah but seriously, for me it's a perfectly legal performance art. Drag is not limited to men dressing as women. And as stated by a few people several times, it's definitely not limited to the drag you see on TV. That's one way.

There are completely different drag scenes with many females performing in drag also.

Notimeforaname · 19/08/2020 18:53

I guess it's somthing you will all have to deal with. It's not going anywhere so...best not to get yourselves ina flap over it. Just turn your head or change the channel. Unless you like looking at/thinkin of things that disgust you

KingFredsTache · 19/08/2020 18:54

And as stated by a few people several times, it's definitely not limited to the drag you see on TV. That's one way.
There are completely different drag scenes with many females performing in drag also.

Well, so we keep being told. So why is it 'Aida H Dee' and 'Flowjob' who are being invited in to libraries and schools to read to kids in the name of 'insclusivity'? Why not all these female drag artists that are apparently everywhere?

Notimeforaname · 19/08/2020 18:57

Well, so we keep being told. So why is it 'Aida H Dee' and 'Flowjob' who are being invited in to libraries and schools to read to kids in the name of 'insclusivity'? Why not all these female drag artists that are apparently everywhere?
I don't know 😂I'm not on the hiring committee😂
I see drag kings quite often where I am we just had one host our pride parade in June on air.

Notimeforaname · 19/08/2020 18:58

Love those names by the way 😂

aSofaNearYou · 19/08/2020 19:00

I guess it's somthing you will all have to deal with. It's not going anywhere so...best not to get yourselves ina flap over it. Just turn your head or change the channel. Unless you like looking at/thinkin of things that disgust you

In a flap? Seriously? They've said the same sort of thing to anyone that has ever pointed out injustice and double standards throughout history, due to it being "just how it is". The people that said those things are on the wrong side of history now, rightfully.

KingFredsTache · 19/08/2020 19:04

@Notimeforaname

Well, so we keep being told. So why is it 'Aida H Dee' and 'Flowjob' who are being invited in to libraries and schools to read to kids in the name of 'insclusivity'? Why not all these female drag artists that are apparently everywhere? I don't know 😂I'm not on the hiring committee😂 I see drag kings quite often where I am we just had one host our pride parade in June on air.
So (if you can refrain from the crying with laughter emojis for a whole post!) what is your view on a drag queen called 'Flowjob' going into a school with an MSP (a female lesbian MSP who was the youngest ever MP, apparently not inspiring enough on its own) to read stories to school children? And then posting photos on his adult Instagram, without permission from parents? And people who objected to this being called 'bigots'?

I'm just interested like..... Smile

Notimeforaname · 19/08/2020 19:04

In a flap? Seriously? They've said the same sort of thing to anyone that has ever pointed out injustice and double standards throughout history, due to it being "just how it is"The people that said those things are on the wrong side of history now, rightfully
I don't know if the 'they' you are referring to and men in general, drag queens or all drag performers but yes this is my opinion. I said" in a flap" It came from me.
I would hate to live my life being so worked up about these words. Drag isn't goin anywhere so not much to do about it.

dadshere · 19/08/2020 19:07

Can't stand drag. Maybe we need to rename it to stop it? Woman-face? If black-face is not acceptable, why is Woman face? Or maybe since Cultural appropriation is the new big thing, let's call it sex appropriation. I honestly cannot understand how anyone finds it funny, it makes me cringe.

Notimeforaname · 19/08/2020 19:08

So (if you can refrain from the crying with laughter emojis for a whole post!) what is your view on a drag queen called 'Flowjob' going into a school with an MSP (a female lesbian MSP who was the youngest ever MP, apparently not inspiring enough on its own) to read stories to school children? And then posting photos on his adult Instagram, without permission from parents? And people who objected to this being called 'bigots'?

I'm just interested like..... smile

I would say you need to take that up with the school. The hired the queen for their services. Smile

A performer isn't going to turn down work on the notion that "some people might think I'm a paedophile and hate women" Grin

NiceGerbil · 19/08/2020 19:08

Misogyny doesn't seem to be going anywhere either

Suppose women should just stop worrying about that as well. Phew! That'll make life a lot easier.

Notimeforaname · 19/08/2020 19:10

Then surly it would be the same safeguarding issue if the school booked a male clown, magician or story reader. They too have a penis and may hate women. Or is it just that drag queens have more potential to be a rapist/child molester/chauvinist?

KingFredsTache · 19/08/2020 19:11

I would say you need to take that up with the school. The hired the queen for their services

No, I'm asking you for your opinion on it - do you think it's appropriate? Do you think someone who objects is a bigot? What do you think that kids get out of it that they wouldn't get out it being read by someone else? I'm interested in what you think.

Notimeforaname · 19/08/2020 19:12

Misogyny doesn't seem to be going anywhere either

Suppose women should just stop worrying about that as well. Phew! That'll make life a lot easier

No that's silly. We won't be doing that. But drag is here to stay I'd say.

KingFredsTache · 19/08/2020 19:14

Then surly it would be the same safeguarding issue if the school booked a male clown, magician or story reader. They too have a penis and may hate women. Or is it just that drag queens have more potential to be a rapist/child molester/chauvinist?

Well, this particular person didn't even know that you couldn't post pictures of kids on your public Insta without their parents permission, so I'm not sure about their safeguarding credentials.... I have never heard of a kids magician called 'Flowjob'... And neither have I ever seen a kids magician with sexualised adult content on their public social media directly linked to the work they were doing with kids.

So I don't think it's the same safeguarding issue, no.

NiceGerbil · 19/08/2020 19:15

And misogyny seems to be here to stay as well.

Loads of people say feminism is ridiculous, women have more rights than men etc.

So using your logic, women say ok just look the other way and don't worry about it. It won't be going anywhere and loads of people can't see any problem.

Notimeforaname · 19/08/2020 19:15

No, I'm asking you for your opinion on it - do you think it's appropriate? Do you think someone who objects is a bigot? What do you think that kids get out of it that they wouldn't get out it being read by someone else? I'm interested in what you think

Yes I think that's absolutely fine. No I would not call someone a bigot for objecting, I'm more than OK with people liking /hating different things. If its not for you, try to stay away. That's absolutely fine.
And as far as what the kids get out of it, I don't know I think most kids are just happy to have stories read to them. Doesn't matter by who once they are kind and well mannered.

KingFredsTache · 19/08/2020 19:18

Or about how Aida H Dee - who had memes about 'getting ur hole destroyed' on the same FB page as they used to advertise their services as a children's story teller? Appropriate? Good safeguarding credentials?

When one MNnetter stated on a thread that anyone else (ie, not a drag queen but a different kind of kids entertainer) who did the same would be 'crucified', Pink News twisted that into the headline 'Mumsnetters call for drag queen's crucifixion' 😂 (see I can do that emoji too!)