Drag, drag, drag....

[Yarboosucks]

I have never been a particularly sensitive or active feminist, but all this drag rubbish on TV is getting to me. How at a time when rightly you could not broadcast in black face or similar is it OK to mock or at best caricature women so ridiculously?

[quote Midsommar]@AlsDiner I get that the fishy reference is unpleasant and I wouldn't use that reference myself but I don't get offended/up in arms about it. I see your point though!

"Try swapping that for saying, for example, Asian people smell of curry, and we'd all be outraged, rightly so" - I was referring to this regarding my race comment.[/quote]
Oh yes sorry, I did. I thought you were talking about the black face comment from a PP.

I think it's relevant because with drag it seems it's perfectly acceptable to say women have gross-smelling genitals, so therefore that means women are fair game to mock and be offensive about. But if you apply that same standard to another class of people (my example of smelling of curry for example) then it would not be acceptable and it would be racist to say so. So why is it not sexist/offensive/misogynistic to say the same about women?

100% offensive and totally inappropriate. Akin to blackface.

I don't find drag offensive, I don't take the humour personally, if I did I would simply not watch it.

I love drag

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult it’s rarely just a man in a dress though, it’s usually a man in a tight pleather minidress/similar with fishnets and massive heels and OTT make up and hair making lowed comments (very few drag performances are funny enough to call it jokes). It’s an obscene caricature of femininity.

@AlsDiner that's ok
I completely understand where you're coming from and I'm open to and respect other people's views and opinions. Your point makes sense and I get where you're coming from but I'm speaking for myself as an individual - I personally do not find drag offensive; I'm a huge fan and never found it misogynistic. I take it as lighthearted entertainment and I appreciate their performances and make up skills.
There are probably some drag performers out there whose "entertainment" is disgusting, sort of the drag equivalent to the "comedian" Chubby Brown. I am not referring to those drag performers - I am thinking more along the glamorous RuPaul calibre.

I do wonder how many of the posters saying is OK are being consciously PC. I have not problem with trans folk where there is a sincere need to dress and live according to how the person feels most natural. Drag is not that though and the Drag Race phenomena seems to be moving into misogynistic territory. The fishy stuff is wretchedly nasty. @ABingThing hit the nail on the head as far as I am concerned.

Only if you look at one type of drag. There are many.

That's like saying all comedians are awful human beings because some of them make sexist jokes, when there are lots of comedians who don't.

You can't condemn all drag queens because of the actions of some.

I love and admire the makeup skills - it is what comes out of their mouth that is offensive

I think it’s absolutely disgusting to have a fetish paraded about on tv.

[quote Midsommar]@AlsDiner that's ok
I completely understand where you're coming from and I'm open to and respect other people's views and opinions. Your point makes sense and I get where you're coming from but I'm speaking for myself as an individual - I personally do not find drag offensive; I'm a huge fan and never found it misogynistic. I take it as lighthearted entertainment and I appreciate their performances and make up skills.
There are probably some drag performers out there whose "entertainment" is disgusting, sort of the drag equivalent to the "comedian" Chubby Brown. I am not referring to those drag performers - I am thinking more along the glamorous RuPaul calibre.[/quote]
As a side note, I love how really polite we're being to each other despite not agreeing ♥️

I love drag. Drag race has pulled me out of some pretty epic depressions.

@Yarboosucks the queens I've seen on RuPaul are not generally offensive (from what I've seen anyway). Maybe apart from the "fishy" thing but that is always used as a compliment, eg if a queen has an incredible outfit on the others will describe her as "fishy". I've never seen them wave their hands around their crotch area in a degrading manner.
I guess there are many types of drag and unfortunately there are bound to be those who push it was too far.

Drag is offensive and belittling towards women in exactly the same way that blackface is offensive and belittling towards black people.

In both, white males in a position of privilege dress up as and parody the physical characteristics of the disempowered - black people and women - for the purposes of mockery and 'entertainment'.

Just because drag queens are part of gay culture, it doesn't give them a free pass on misogyny. Just like a comedian's sexuality - hello, Matt Lucas! - doesn't give them the right to use blackface.

@AlsDiner yes, we are having a good old adult debate! Just because we have differing opinions doesn't mean we should be rude I wish everyone was as nice! Haha.

Doesn't offend me. Drag Race is one of my tv highlights currently

I don’t mind it but I mind all the flouncing about and Ridiculous face pulling etc. The over emphasising every action really rather annoys me ... but that’s me so if it gets to me I don’t have to watch! However I get the deeper meaning , I think, behind what you’re saying... it does seem that things are a bit awry at the moment. And when we’re calling out EVERY TINY LITTLE THING that’s deemed offensive, racist, fascist, sizeist (?), heightist, sexist, and any other ‘OST’ you can think about, it does seem strange that everyone is so willing to accept parodies of women on tv.....especially when JK R was pulled up for saying ‘ people who mestruate’ are women cos ONLY BIOLOGICAL WOMEN CAN MENSTRUATE!!!! And I dgaf if your man woman or alien - identify any way you like- but this is a fact of life. And women are getting a hard press. All those morons and muppets who jumped on the band wagon and left JK R publishers cos she’s a menace to society , I’m really really REEEALLY sick of this shite. It had no place in my society. People really need to get a grip on reality. And yes , come on all the complainers and have a go......

You know not all drag queens are white right?

I've never seen them wave their hands around their crotch area in a degrading manner

Two drag queens appeared on the big fat quiz of the year (I think it's called) and did the crotch waving with 'ewww gross' type facial expression on that show. I think, but I'm not sure as I don't watch it, they were from Drag Race.

Do female comedians not also make jokes about vaginas. I can think of several who have done this. Also I have heard them make fun of penis size/shape/smell.

Dont judge any group of people on the actions of a few.

I don't like it either. I don't think it's any different to blackface.

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult

You know not all drag queens are white right?

Doesn't invalidate my point. Just because someone feels they're oppressed and disenfranchised, it doesn't give them the right to oppress and mock other disenfranchised groups.

Hate it.

Let's get a group of men to dress up as an exaggerated form of a woman stereotype - what a laugh!

Let's get a group of men to dress up as an exaggerated form of a black person stereotype - deeply racist and highly offensive.

I find it deeply offensive and don't watch it.

Isn't the definition of whether something is offensive (racially or sexually) whether the people being targeted find it so?

@AlsDiner "I've never seen them wave their hands around their crotch area in a degrading manner

Two drag queens appeared on the big fat quiz of the year (I think it's called) and did the crotch waving with 'ewww gross' type facial expression on that show. I think, but I'm not sure as I don't watch it, they were from Drag Race."

Apologies - I stand corrected. I agree that is pretty grim and unfunny. In my defence I've never seen them act like that on Drag Race!