Drag, drag, drag....

[Yarboosucks]

I have never been a particularly sensitive or active feminist, but all this drag rubbish on TV is getting to me. How at a time when rightly you could not broadcast in black face or similar is it OK to mock or at best caricature women so ridiculously?

@1forAll74

I like drag, it's not offensive.The men can look quite ridiculous at times. but some can look quite good, and its just entertainment in my view.

Just entertainment? Like the black and white minstrels then?

Criticizing drag is seen by some as criticizing those who genuinely feel their birth gender is not correct for them. If society believes gender is not fixed at birth then it is harder to argue against men dressing up as women for a laugh than it is to argue against white men blacking up for a laugh.

I don't think it's got anything to do with trans issues. I believe that most (all?) drag queens are gay men who when not performing their act just wear their usual clothes. cf. Danny La Rue (showing my age!) or more recently Lily Savage.

Does anyone here know of any drag acts performed by straight men?

why does it matter if they're trans?

SocialMedea
Really? On the telly like the drag queens have here?

Yea we just had the virtual pride parade air a few weeks ago. It was hosted by a drag king named Phil. T. Gorgeous

I was recently dragged (ha) to a LGBT comedy night by my friend who is a big drag fan but she assured me it was a gay/lesbian night with very little drag. I only went really to keep my friend company and she know I find drag offensive.

The compere was a drag queen whose whole act consisted of their breast "accidently" falling out of their dress, offensive jokes about JKR and asking men in the audience about which dress they liked best on them.

It was tedious in the extreme.

I find it irritating and derogatory to women - and just boring. But it was the library ‘drag story times’ that pushed me over the edge to active dislike.

Oh, and I think people think it’s a prudish thing to not like it, I’m probably the least prudish person I know but I just don’t find it clever humour either. I’m just over it all at the moment.

Don’t particularly like it (and never got the pantomime dame thing either) but don’t think it Is anything like black face . Also haven’t noticed it on tv recently

< crawls back under rock >

@contrmary

I think drag is deemed acceptable and blackface isn't because society thinks that a person can change their gender but not their race.

Criticizing drag is seen by some as criticizing those who genuinely feel their birth gender is not correct for them. If society believes gender is not fixed at birth then it is harder to argue against men dressing up as women for a laugh than it is to argue against white men blacking up for a laugh.

Fortunately, wokeness will catch up before long. I dream of the day Mrs Brown's Fucking Boys is consigned to the same dustbin as the Black & White Minstrels.

Drag is very very rarely performed by trans women.90% of drag queens are gay men, so this comment doesn’t make a lot of sense.

I honestly have never seen a drag show (in Ireland at least) where its this "pantomime dame" act with boobs falling out and derogatory comments made like many people here have experienced.

A number of irish queens don't even wear fake boobs or bras etc.
The shows I see are just songs, games and dance competitions for the audience so I've never seen some of the vulgar things I hear about here.

I guess it also makes a big difference which venue/scene you're around,the type of performers they choose to employ and what the general public in that area are entertained by.

@uhmmmmmm

why does it matter if they're trans?

Did anyone say it matters?

It's shit, not funny and offensive to women. How come it's OK to refer to women as 'fishy'?

Plus this whole Drag Queen Story Time in libraries is a load of shit that has absolutely zero benefit to small children.

It's shit, not funny and offensive to women
I absolutely appreciate its offensive to you and I respect that however it's not offensive to all women so try not to speak for women on the whole.
It's offensive to you but not me.
I am friends and work with many drag artists and their own mothers/sisters /grandmothers are extremely proud and not offended in any way.
So it's definitely a positive thing for some women.

I loathe drag, a bunch of men using Cartoonish stereotypes of women to get laughs. It’s is the same as blackface. But anti racism is currently on trend, actual women’s rights have never been on trend (well at least since before the Roman Empire).

@Notimeforaname

It's shit, not funny and offensive to women I absolutely appreciate its offensive to you and I respect that however it's not offensive to all women so try not to speak for women on the whole. It's offensive to you but not me. I am friends and work with many drag artists and their own mothers/sisters /grandmothers are extremely proud and not offended in any way. So it's definitely a positive thing for some women.

So you're not offended by women (and drag queens who pass as women) as 'fishy'? About women being brought up on stage during drag shows and insulted because its so funny? About the caricaturing of negative stereotypes about women?

If my son, grandson, brother was a drag queen and referred to women as fishy or insulted women in other ways as part of their act, they would get nothing but a huge bollocking from me when they came home!

So you're not offended by women (and drag queens who pass as women) as 'fishy'? About women being brought up on stage during drag shows and insulted because its so funny? About the caricaturing of negative stereotypes about women?

If my son, grandson, brother was a drag queen and referred to women as fishy or insulted women in other ways as part of their act, they would get nothing but a huge bollocking from me when they came home!

No, not at all. I appreciate it is offensive to others but it's fine with me.

And never in my life have I seen someone brought up on stage at a drag show to be laughed at and insulted.
I did however see a hypnotist in Manchester in 2007 who brought a woman onto the stage in a very short skirt(he kept mentioning this about her) he 'put her under' and then proceeded to make her react to wolf whistles by shaking her bum whilst everybody laughed,single most uncomfortable and disgraceful thing I've ever had to watch-we left shortly after) so I could never sit through somthing like that again... Drag show or not.

I think we'll just have to agree that not every drag artist, show or venue are the same and some people have more respect and higher standards for their acts.

I think we'll just have to agree that not every drag artist, show or venue are the same and some people have more respect and higher standards for their acts.

Well that's certainly true.

What's your view on drag names such as 'Anna Bortion' or 'Malestia Child'?

What's your view on drag names such as 'Anna Bortion' or 'Malestia Child'?

Honestly? the former made me laugh, the latter made me want to puke.

I hadn't heard of either of those names til mumsnet

Drag is just hating on women

They're just a bunch of freaks really. I doubt most people take them seriously. Outdated "humour" enjoyed by the not very bright I imagine?

Drag is just hating on women
Definitely not for me.
I think - in this instance- imitation is the highest form of flattery. Obviously only when done in a respectful and tasteful manner of course.

I think - in this instance- imitation is the highest form of flattery.

In what way does a drag queen 'imitate' your average woman? To me it just seems to be about taking certain stereotypes about women (makeup, short skirts, heels, being bitchy and diva-ish etc) and caricaturing them to the max?

I didn't say your average woman. At all. I didn't say woman. It's an impersonation.
Again I have never experienced drag like others have here,thank fuck for that.

Many of the drag performers I see and work with are very talented individuals. Actors, singers, dancers, artist etc.
They are never just parading around in heels or short skirts. That by any standard and in any arena, is a talentless act.
They are putting on a show. I can't believe so many people have sat in an establishment and witnessed such vulgar goings on as I've heard

*as I've heard here.