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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To say if they mandate mask wearing they need to ensure some way for the exempt from masks to prove it?

743 replies

BuffaloCauliflower · 13/07/2020 13:28

I am not anti-masks at all, I can see they are often very useful tools in infection control when used correctly (though it doesn’t seem they are by many people) but as someone ‘officially exempt’ from wearing them - in my case due to asthma - I’m increasingly panicked at the thought they’ll be made mandatory in shops and other places.

I have been able to avoid public transport thankfully due to furlough/wfh but I’ve wanted to shop, help the economy etc. and I fear I’ll have to stay away completely if masks are mandatory because I don’t think my exemption would be believed, or that I wouldn’t have people having a go at me for being out without a mask. I’ve tried many times to wear them and they make my symptoms (already far worse than usual due to pregnancy) ramp up even more. It’s very distressing, especially as it causes coughing, and I’m then removing the mask (touching the mask and my face, definitely not mask best practice) repeatedly to try and regulate my breathing. I’m following all other guidance sensibly, lots of hand washing, keeping my distance from others when out, but all things considered I think I’m more risk to others in a mask than without one should I be carrying CV.

I am very worried that despite being exempt I have no way to prove it to shops or other businesses. I carry my inhalers but that relies on others understanding, the government have previously said there won’t be anything official to prove exemption, though public transport companies have come up with different options (I’ve printed the TfL card just in case, but technically anyone could do this as it’s not verified) I’ve already been told once that someone ‘didn’t agree’ with exemptions to mask wearing and I should basically suck it up. People who want to be mean won’t check for exemption before having a go I’m sure of it.

But at the very least shouldn’t they ensure there’s some official way I could prove my exemption, a letter or card I could apply for from my doctor perhaps, that’s recognisable to others so I’m not at risk of not being believed or being yelled at? There are many people who will be in the some position.

OP posts:
Duggeehugs82 · 13/07/2020 21:33

@GreytExpectations

It's funny that so many other countries seem be manage wearing masks without this level of hysteria.
Yes this, I have asthma i am going to be wearing a mask and have done when i go in side anywhere, yes its uncomfortable but im doing it. I actually find i lip read way more than i thoughy, and im finding difficult to listen to what people r saying when they r in a mask
canigooutyet · 13/07/2020 21:34

We forget we are all different thankfully and there are various degrees of illnesses. Some mild, some serious, some alone are fine throw in another illness and things get more interesting. It's not always the "asthma" that is the risk (which is huge and misunderstood) it's also the underlying that will help to exasperate the asthma.

Once something else starts to drop to whatever is can quickly turn into the domino effect and things go bad quick. Millions are similar situations.

I wouldn't say to others well I'm ok regardless of my choices so you should just be quiet and do the same.I don't know their medical history and would suggest they look after their own damn health. - engage with. your medical people, research etc and make an informed choice for you.

If people want to wear a mask, don't want to wear a mask it's down to them. Of course some won't be wearing them as a way of objecting to them. However, how many millions are excluded under the guidelines regardless of the country?

EveryPlanetHasAYorkshire · 13/07/2020 21:39

@GreytExpectations

For those who can't wear a face mask, what's your medical objection to a face sheild, that doesn't even touch your face?
Again, I have autism and have sensory issues. I can't stand anything over my head.
PhilCornwall1 · 13/07/2020 21:41

@GreytExpectations

For those who can't wear a face mask, what's your medical objection to a face sheild, that doesn't even touch your face?
If I have anything presses on my right temple as well as my face it triggers severe pain. As a shield has a head band, it won't work.

I've tried a mask and it was agony too, due to the nerve condition I have.

Drivingdownthe101 · 13/07/2020 21:43

@GreytExpectations

For those who can't wear a face mask, what's your medical objection to a face sheild, that doesn't even touch your face?
Claustrophobia. I can’t go in a lift or sleep in a tent, and they don’t touch my face either.
Dinosauratemydaffodils · 13/07/2020 21:48

For those who can't wear a face mask, what's your medical objection to a face sheild, that doesn't even touch your face?

Because in order to not trigger my ptsd, it has to be so far from my face as to be useless. I have tried a visor and at the last count about 5 different masks as well as various scarves and shawls. I'd love to find a solution because I want my life back plus I really want the sleeping pills (and antidepressants but mostly the sleeping pills) my GP is refusing to hand over unless she sees me in person.

DarkMintChocolate · 13/07/2020 21:50

Nrtft, but if people have blue badges and are accused of scamming the council, why wouldn't those same people accuse anybody with a card, certifying they are exempt from wearing a mask, of being a scammer too?

canigooutyet · 13/07/2020 21:50

@GreytExpectations

For those who can't wear a face mask, what's your medical objection to a face sheild, that doesn't even touch your face?
I thought the advice was to wear a visor with a mask?
Drivingdownthe101 · 13/07/2020 21:50

@GreytExpectations

For those who can't wear a face mask, what's your medical objection to a face sheild, that doesn't even touch your face?
Do you think people wouldn’t rather just be able to put one on and get on with their day? I certainly would. It would make my life a whole lot easier.
Lalalamps · 13/07/2020 22:19

I have severe claustrophobia when my face/head is covered.
I also suffer from chronic allergic and non allergic rhinitis all year round.
There’s no way I’m wearing a mask so I have been wearing a visor at work (NHS) but I’m finding it’s making my vision terrible, especially when I’m on the computer, I leave work with blurry eyes and headaches from the eye strain.

vanillandhoney · 13/07/2020 22:21

@GreytExpectations

For those who can't wear a face mask, what's your medical objection to a face sheild, that doesn't even touch your face?
Autism and sensory issues.

The same reason I can't wear hats, over the ear headphones, ear muffs, scarves or polo neck jumpers.

LangClegsInSpace · 13/07/2020 22:31

@Buttercup77 - I have a legal background and I think (but could be wrong) that this is very unlikely to fall under the disability discrimination act. I think people are forgetting that wearing a mask is not solely for the wearers benefit but for the collective benefit of society during a pandemic. The mask isn’t just to protect you from getting Covid but to protect other people if it is indeed the case that you yourself have it.

Your legal background must have been a while ago, it's been the Equality Act for 10 years now.

A blanket 'no mask - no entry' rule with no exceptions would amount to unlawful indirect disability discrimination.

Indirect discrimination is where you have the same rule/way of doing things for everyone but it disproportionately disadvantages people with a certain protected characteristic - in this case disability.

Indirect discrimination can be lawful if it is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim, which I think is what you are suggesting.

There is no doubt that preventing the spread of covid is a legitimate aim but a blanket rule with no exceptions cannot be considered a proportionate means of achieving it.

This is because face coverings are one tool among many that can make a small but significant difference. They can help make a bigger difference in combination with all the other measures but on their own they are not a gamechanger.

OTOH a blanket face-covering rule would completely exclude many disabled people from accessing goods and services, including public transport, altogether. That's a game changer.

So it's not proportionate and it's not lawful.

Providers of goods and services have a legal duty to provide reasonable adjustments for disabled customers and service users. It's a way of mitigating indirect discrimination and enabling as many people as possible to access your goods and services. Exceptions to a 'no mask - no entry' rule for people with disabilities are a reasonable adjustment. Providers that fail to provide reasonable adjustments, either through malice or ignorance, should expect to be sued.

Providers of goods and services are also prohibited from harassing customers and service users. Harassment is any unwanted conduct related to a protected characteristic that violates your dignity, or creates an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment for you.

So while it may be reasonable for providers to check whether you have a valid reason to enter their premises without wearing a mask, they should do so in a sensitive manner. None of the people behind you in the Tesco queue or the bus queue have the right to know that you even have a disability, let alone any of the details, and you should not be asked any unnecessary, intrusive questions. A simple statement of 'I have a disability/condition that prevents me from wearing a mask', delivered out of earshot of the rest of the queue, should be enough. If it isn't then OP is right, there must be an official scheme to enable people who can't wear masks to go about their daily business without harassment.

A sign in a shop window can constitute harassment on its own. If you put a sign up saying 'no mask - no entry' or worse, 'no mask - no entry - no excuse' then you are creating exactly the type of environment for disabled people that the Equality Act defines as unlawful harassment.

It doesn't matter if the provider didn't intend to harass disabled people. They might have done what they did with the very best of intentions but the EA says that harassment is any unwanted conduct that has the purpose or effect of ...

So to avoid the danger of being taken to court, providers of goods and services should listen to disabled people when they say that something a provider has done has made them feel intimidated, degraded, or humiliated, or that their dignity has been violated, or that a hostile or offensive environment has been created for them because of something the provider has done. And they should put it right.

And if a lot of people who can't wear masks are saying they will just stay at home and not even attempt to access the goods and services - that they have the same right to as anyone else - because they just can't face the nastiness, then providers need to listen really hard because this is a sign of abject failure on their part.

And if anyone else has a problem with someone not wearing a mask then they should take it up with the service provider, not the other customer.

If there are lots of people not wearing masks despite the stated policy then you may have a genuine complaint but it will be very general - 'why are you letting so many people in without masks?'

If there are few enough people not wearing masks that you have singled out an individual and decided to complain about them then you should be shown the door and not allowed back.

Providers of goods and services have a duty to prevent creating a hostile environment for their customers and service users and if you are part of that environment then they have a duty to not condone your bullshit.

TL;DR: The Equality Act has not been cancelled because of coronavirus.

EveryPlanetHasAYorkshire · 13/07/2020 22:40

They will be compulsory from 24th July.

EveryPlanetHasAYorkshire · 13/07/2020 22:40

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53397617

Meredithgrey1 · 13/07/2020 22:46

They will be compulsory from 24th July.

Slight side issue I know, but did Boris deliberately send Michael Gove out to do interviews yesterday where he said he didn't think it should be mandatory just so that he could make him look silly 36 hours later by bringing it in?

Lovely1a2b3c · 13/07/2020 22:46

One thing to try is to use a thin surgical face mask for increasingly long periods of time at home- so put it on for 30 seconds, then a minute, then two minutes; up to half an hour. I have mild asthma too and panicking definitely makes it worse so this is what I would try if I found a mask made it worse (luckily it doesn't for me).

It's very likely that you will adjust quickly to it and then this won't be an issue any longer.

There are some exemptions to the mask rule but I really think these should be a few limited exceptions rather than seemingly 50+% of the English population, as seems to be the case at the moment.

Cheeseislife2020 · 13/07/2020 22:50

What about clear visors for asthma? It doesn’t affect the air flow to the Mouth that much ?

SecretSpAD · 13/07/2020 22:54

It's very likely that you will adjust quickly to it and then this won't be an issue any longer

It is more likely that the OP and every other asthmatic who has said they can't wear face coverings, know that they can't wear them. Either they have tried and failed, had an asthma attack or have other reasons why they can't use them.

I mentioned further up thread, but I had to change my career because I was having asthma attacks whilst wearing a face mask.

Asthma is not just one condition that is the same for everyone. We all have individual triggers. For some of us, wearing any kind of face covering does cause an attack. We know this and so do nit need any more helpful suggestions.

greenestolives · 13/07/2020 22:59

Like several others on the thread, I'm asthmatic. Very mildly. However if there is one thing guaranteed to bring on an attack, it is having something over my face. I can't even stand in the shower and let water trickle over it. I've never been able to wash my face with a flannel etc. I can't even dry my face with a towel without gasping for air. Going swimming is a nightmare. I can't wear polo neck jumpers, I can't wear a scarf unless it is just draped over the back of my neck and my shoulders. Just sitting here thinking about having to wear a mask has made my heart rate go sky high, and I'm shaking.

When people say they have claustrophobia with something over their face, they can't just 'get used' to wearing a mask. It is a phobia and you can't get over phobias just like that.

Would you expect an arachnophobic asthmatic to let a spider walk across their face? No, you wouldn't. Because you know they would descend into an hysterical panic and have a huge asthma attack into the bargain.

That's what the prospect of wearing a mask or any kind of face covering feels like to me.

I'm honestly dreading it. I've already been refused entry to places, even when I've explained I have a medical reason for not wearing one. I won't be able to go anywhere.

HeIenaDove · 13/07/2020 23:28

I made a decision while i was in the bath. DH and i rent from a housing association and should anyone from said HA want to enter our flat and that includes the HO........they will have to wear a mask.
Mentioned it to DH He is in complete agreement

HeIenaDove · 13/07/2020 23:39

Meanwhile those in pubs can continue to get pissed without masks Im sure the blokes pissed up and fighting outside our local Wetherspoons last Friday will be pleased.

Standardy · 13/07/2020 23:46

bet if someone was chucking toxic gas around the county you would be crawling over each other to reach a gas mask.

Ain't that the truth. Masks only protect other people though, so why bother.

Standardy · 13/07/2020 23:46

I made a decision while i was in the bath. DH and i rent from a housing association and should anyone from said HA want to enter our flat and that includes the HO........they will have to wear a mask.

Eh?

HeIenaDove · 13/07/2020 23:49

Standardy Do you need a translation

HeIenaDove · 13/07/2020 23:50

Masks only protect other people though, so why bother

YOUR words Standardy

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