To say if they mandate mask wearing they need to ensure some way for the exempt from masks to prove it?

[BuffaloCauliflower]

I am not anti-masks at all, I can see they are often very useful tools in infection control when used correctly (though it doesn’t seem they are by many people) but as someone ‘officially exempt’ from wearing them - in my case due to asthma - I’m increasingly panicked at the thought they’ll be made mandatory in shops and other places.

I have been able to avoid public transport thankfully due to furlough/wfh but I’ve wanted to shop, help the economy etc. and I fear I’ll have to stay away completely if masks are mandatory because I don’t think my exemption would be believed, or that I wouldn’t have people having a go at me for being out without a mask. I’ve tried many times to wear them and they make my symptoms (already far worse than usual due to pregnancy) ramp up even more. It’s very distressing, especially as it causes coughing, and I’m then removing the mask (touching the mask and my face, definitely not mask best practice) repeatedly to try and regulate my breathing. I’m following all other guidance sensibly, lots of hand washing, keeping my distance from others when out, but all things considered I think I’m more risk to others in a mask than without one should I be carrying CV.

I am very worried that despite being exempt I have no way to prove it to shops or other businesses. I carry my inhalers but that relies on others understanding, the government have previously said there won’t be anything official to prove exemption, though public transport companies have come up with different options (I’ve printed the TfL card just in case, but technically anyone could do this as it’s not verified) I’ve already been told once that someone ‘didn’t agree’ with exemptions to mask wearing and I should basically suck it up. People who want to be mean won’t check for exemption before having a go I’m sure of it.

But at the very least shouldn’t they ensure there’s some official way I could prove my exemption, a letter or card I could apply for from my doctor perhaps, that’s recognisable to others so I’m not at risk of not being believed or being yelled at? There are many people who will be in the some position.

Please read the official guidelines and the exemptions. There is no mention of "certain" anything. This is why I encourage people to go and read these as well as various acts rather than assumptions and hearsay.

Perhaps you should read them yourself or at least read them properly.

The guidance states "not being able to put on, wear or remove a face covering because of a physical or mental illness or impairment, or disability" How on earth have you translated that to mean that everyone with a disability/medical condition is exempt? Clearly the exemption only applies in certain cases so if you have a disability that does not reasonably prevent you from wearing a mask you have to wear one.

@canigooutyet

So hypothetically I leave my house, just before boarding public transport I put my mask on.

Yes. So far so good.

I arrive at my retail job, leaving personal items and mask behind.

It’s up to you. It is perfectly fine for you to wear a mask if you work in retail.

Been a long day listening to customers through muffled masks who are as confused as fuck as me.

You may be confused, but we are not.

As I make my way home wearing a mask, I'm thinking about food. I'm walking home another mask to clean joins the other one, and the takeaway is open. Awesome, at least I don't have to put another clean mask on.

If you are walking home, you don’t need to wear a mask as you are not using public transport. It’s your choice if you want to wear one.

If you are using a reusable mask, it is fine to wear the same mask all day. You don’t need to change it within the day. Just chuck it in the wash when you get home.

If you are using a disposable mask, it may be fine to wear all day, as long as it doesn’t get wet. If it does, you should change it. Usually one-two masks a day will suffice.

There is no reason to use another mask at the takeaway, just keep wearing the one you (hypothetically) already have on.

I know some will read this as I'm just trying to look at a way of avoiding one.

Yes.

When in reality it's just the average persons day within the guidelines.

You are not the average person. The average person will just put a bloody mask on and stop obsessing over it. But you have stated dozens of times that you are exempt and won’t wear a mask, so why are you wasting everyone’s time?

@mrpumblechook

Please read the official guidelines and the exemptions. There is no mention of "certain" anything. This is why I encourage people to go and read these as well as various acts rather than assumptions and hearsay.

Perhaps you should read them yourself or at least read them properly.

The guidance states "not being able to put on, wear or remove a face covering because of a physical or mental illness or impairment, or disability" How on earth have you translated that to mean that everyone with a disability/medical condition is exempt? Clearly the exemption only applies in certain cases so if you have a disability that does not reasonably prevent you from wearing a mask you have to wear one.

I am reading it correctly.

If it didn't mean everyone it would say apart from those with whatever.

Ergo however many millions have the choice to decide for themselves if they think they need to wear one or not because they have physical/mental health. They haven't been asked to provide evidence, sit in front of a panel, have any assessment or anything else to provide proof.

Clearly the exemption only applies in certain cases so if you have a disability that does not reasonably prevent you from wearing a mask you have to wear one.

I am really baffled by this tbh. No matter how many times I read - not being able to put on, wear or remove a face covering because of a physical or mental illness or impairment, or disability - I cannot see any mention the word certain.

So which conditions would the be? As others have tried saying, asthmatics should be wearing them despite globally medical advice says no. Adhd, Autism and countless others have been disputed. I can personally think of people with CP who will and won't be wearing one because of their reasons.

@Yellownotblue
How am I wasting anyones time?
The op asked should it be mandated in some way.
Some posters would like to see an introduction of some way of proving worthiness to not wear a mask. And if people want to try and get this legalised, damn right I'm going to be saying not a chance. Same civil liberty reasons used when the ID card idea was scrapped.

In retail government guidelines tell staff they aren't needed. Just like many supermarket workers haven't been wearing them until now, they will continue. And why wouldn't it be confusing walking around a supermarket wearing a mask, but standing near the till a mask isn't worn?

The information with regards to changing them varies. Home made up to 30 minutes. PPE within a few hours, or in the case of medical use, between patients. China and Japan do re-use the covers and also have filters that are used separately. China even gave every household two of the reuable.
Although I am exempt, health means at times masks become a part of daily lives. Has been for at least 40 years now fyi. From other posters on this site, I found more about how China/Japan use then and have bought some filters. Not that I should have to explain myself to you.

Masks getting wet isn't just because of rain etc. It is also to do with the stuff that comes from our own mouths and of course sweat. Sardine Tube cans, 10 minutes and people can be heavily sweating, mask needs changing. If they get a damp on the exterior they need changing.

So if I was using a knock a tshirt together mask, even though re-usable needs regular changing.

People reading this are obviously getting different advice, they need to go and look at medical stuff about this to ensure they are fully informed. Could also explain why time was given, to ensure people know how to use them correctly.

If it didn't mean everyone it would say apart from those with whatever.

It doesn't need to say "apart from those with whatever". The words mean that people are exempt only if they are unable to wear a mask because of their disability or medical condition. Most disabled people or people with medical conditions are perfectly able to wear a mask so clearly the exemption doesn't apply to them!

I am really baffled by this tbh. No matter how many times I read - not being able to put on, wear or remove a face covering because of a physical or mental illness or impairment, or disability - I cannot see any mention the word certain.

It doesn't have to use the word "certain" disabilities for it to mean that only people with certain disabilities and not all those with disabilities will be exempt! The newspapers have clearly paraphrased it but they have done that correctly.

SOmeone else posted this link on another thread. Over 70 links to sites about masks. More sites are available. Cross check sources.

Sometimes I forget when I am reading these things what community means - it's medical based. (I know it's a silly thing but after a while of reading community and ppe, things like this start to merge. Think it's to with the repeativeness, but I digress!)

threader.app/thread/1279144399897866248

Oh and I keep coming back to see if someone has found anything that says government will be making a list. Still haven't found one, I just keep getting back to the exemption stuff we know.

@canigooutyet

Your reading of the guidance is plainly wrong. It says explicitly that you are exempt if you can’t put on, wear or remove a face covering because of a physical or mental illness or impairment, or disability.

It follows that if you have a disability that does not make it impossible to put on, wear or remove a mask, you are NOT exempt.

Do you have memory loss issues? You are now quoting back to me, the information I shared with you on a separate thread a couple of days ago, about filters, moisture etc. It’s a bit disconcerting.

Right at the beginning a kind poster explained how you can get the lanyards . So why 29 pages ?

The law says you have to allow people in without masks because of health.

Shop says sod that and masks only, no exceptions.
Customer asks why not?
SA: You haven't got a mask
Customer : Neither have you
SA: But I work here
Customer: And what's your point?
SA: You need to wear a mask to protect others
Customers: Da fuq? So why don't you need to?
SA: to protect the others.
Customer: So you live here then?
Sa : Erm no.

Replace the word mask for countless others, and you see the discrimination. The SA doesn't have to add oh and I'm also exempt because of health. That's when it becomes harder to clarify about whose rights are more worthy than the others. It will be those cases that would be harder to prove discrimination if the SA also has a physical/mental reason for exemption.

@Yellownotblue

I did say info from others from this site. Same with the link I posted from that very same thread.

Oh it's you. Figures. Yes I remember you,

I have said everything I had to say about that on that thread. This is a different one. Do try to keep up, there's a dear. Others wondering wtf search either of our names, you will find it.

Personally I like to focus on the here and now, and the threads I'm currently engaged with. Not ones from days ago!

I don't think that the shop could be sued for "discrimination" for not letting someone in without a mask just as you couldn't be sued for not letting someone in your property without a mask. It's private property. Businesses only have to make "reasonable adjustments" for disabled people anyway. They might have a reason for not wanting anyone to visit without a mask e.g. the shopkeeper could be vulnerable to coronavirus.

@canigooutyet

Do try to keep up, there's a dear.

Patronising much, especially as you seemingly can’t walk and chew gum at the same time. Or walk and wear a mask. Or read AND recall information.

You thanked me profusely on that other thread for sharing links to face mask filters sold in Asia. Now you seem to want to educate me about those filters, using the information I gave you. It’s rather odd.

On the post in this thread did you mention filters? No

If you are using a reusable mask, it is fine to wear the same mask all day. You don’t need to change it within the day. Just chuck it in the wash when you get home. Reusable in the UK. = knock yourself one together from something you have knocking around the house.

Fuck me how much thanks do you want? I thanked you then. Oh because I didn't mention you when I posted From other posters on this site, I found more about how China/Japan use then and have bought some filters. Not that I should have to explain myself to you.

Anyway you promised days ago you would stop engaging with me. Still waiting [ggrin]

'Stop being selfish': NHS doctor shows how masks do not affect breathing

@ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia Was just going to post that - I have severe asthma and mask wearing has not affected me even during a very bad asthma attack - it made sod all difference if it was on or off, on top of the oxygen/salbutamol/steroids mask or not. I was wearing a double layered cloth mask with a cloth filter in it.

I also have a proper N99 mask which does make it feel harder to breath but again doesn't really affect me - can cycle and run in it. Haven't worn it during an asthma attack though.

@FlameFartingDragon

Thanks that is comforting to hear.

I know a few people who suffer from asthma (and obstructive sleep apnea another respiratory medical condition). They are fine using standard clinical face masks and can breathe without any limitation.

I myself now tend to just use these daily wear disposable clinical face masks too but previously only 3M N95, FFP3 and KN95 when literally hundreds were dropping like flies in the UK daily. I will save these higher protection safer masks for absolute emergencies or when the next big second waves hit UK as people are more generally out and about and many unmasked as usual.

I think the number of people who genuinely can't wear a mask because of a physical or medical condition is going to be very small. If it turns out that masks greatly reduce transmission if everyone is wearing them I really hope that they bring in an official system such as the one for blue badges in order for people to be exempt as otherwise many people will just use it as an excuse.

Oh had an idea over night about some ID card for this.

Change radar key into a radar card, and unlike the key the card cannot be claimed by every Tom, Dick and Harriet.

Obviously it will take time, but so would introducing any new official id system.

Another advantage will be to those who haven't got full movement of hands/wrists, a card will be easier than the key. A few people I know older than me, won't go out alone in case they are caught short and they don't want to ask someone to open the door for them when they have their own key.

Card place, quick "chat" with local GP surgery to confirm health. When a PIP/ESA claim is active, a part of that includes a quick "chat" with GP.

Nothing intrusive to claim, just a simple letter from whatever health department your under. We all get follow up letters even when we get discharged from under the care of a specific department. Yes I know, we don't always get any follow up appointments, lucky to hear about the appointment in the first place!!

I'd be more than happy to give up my key for a card, the keys aren't exactly small 🤣Plus of course there's the App potential.

The card can be claimed for all those short term things they are needed for like spd(?) say 3 months access, if it needs extended cough up another tenner or whatever the low charge is.

I also wouldn’t mine chucking an extra tenner in the pot so someone who cannot afford it can get one. Do it as a charity and can link it to amazon for more funding.

Oh and of course, having a proper card stops those racing towards accessible toilets when they see a wheelchair heading that way.
And I don’t think baby changing is a protected law, I think its more a curtesy thing.

20,000 people stopped for not wearing face masks on Tubes or buses

www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/fines-people-not-wearing-masks-tubes-buses-london-a4500416.html

[quote ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia]20,000 people stopped for not wearing face masks on Tubes or buses

www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/fines-people-not-wearing-masks-tubes-buses-london-a4500416.html[/quote]
Why not comment on the positives? 90% of passengers wearing face coverings. 5%, no mask due to health reasons. Some of the remaining 5% would be children under 11. So less than 5% are not wearing are a mask but are not legally exempt. If you get the same ratio in shops, it's hardly going to be a problem, is it?

[quote ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia]20,000 people stopped for not wearing face masks on Tubes or buses

www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/fines-people-not-wearing-masks-tubes-buses-london-a4500416.html[/quote]
And 61 fines given.
90% wearing them, the remaining 10% half claimed to be exempt.

@BamboozledandBefuddled

When I read this newspaper article I was pleasantly surprised because normally you rarely see anyone (adult or children) wear any PPE face coverings or masks etc as in worn globally.

In the UK despite our Covid performance we still see this as what other people and tourists do.

I understand TfL lost a number of Covid staff fatalities - customer facing bus (and a few train) drivers because over the past half a year and even today most don't bother about any PPE when in public areas unless being challenged or punished by authorities etc.

I think the government is forced to make it compulsory as voluntary safety advice is even less effective.

I am not a part of the ultra-militant mask evangelists keyboard warrior army but do see sense in protection when and where practicable. Some special exemptions apply but children also have died so possibly wise to prevent as there is no cure.

just as you couldn't be sued for not letting someone in your property without a mask. It's private property

Hmm Zacly!! So i will not be letting anyone from the housing association i rent from into my home without a mask should they ask to visit for any reason Im bringing this in from the 24th!

I live in a part of the U.S. where it is mandatory to wear masks in stores and to have them when out in public. And absolutely every single person, child and adult (over 2) seems to manage just fine. If they don't feel comfortable with masks, they can wear face shields. This disease can be carried by asymptomatic carriers and it is deadly. I don't know why so many Brits seem desperate to weasel out of wearing them.