Son's girlfriend thinks suntans are racist

[DollyDaydream70]

I could be opening a real can of worms here, but I'm genuinely gobsmacked by a few things my Son's 18yr old girlfriend said to me last night..

First of all she asked me did I think it's racist for white girls to copy black girl's style. I had no clue what she was referring to as 'black girl's style' so asked her to elaborate. She then referred to a singer called Ariane Grande (who I know literally 0 about) and said that she tans herself until she's almost black and 'dresses like a black girl'.

I've Googled said singer and all I can find is a pic of her with Nikki Minaj where, yes, she looks dark, but so what? We've been tanning since Coco Chanel made it stylish in the 1920's, and probably long before that! What are we supposed to do? Stay indoors when the sun shines ffs?!!

Son's GF also stated that it's racist for a white person to wear corn rows in their hair. I told her that my friends and I used to corn row our hair a lot in the mid to late 80's, we used to stick wooden or plastic beads on the ends of our plaits, it was quite the fashion at the time!

What do you all think about this? Please tell me this is all going too far. I'm genuinely quite perplexed that tanning and corn rows could be deemed to be racist!

The vikings sometimes did their hair in cornrows ir mohawks, so if you are British it will not be cultural appropriation for you to have done that.

Cornrows are the same as Dutch braids and French plats?

It’s not acceptable for you to not care apparently. The idea of cultural appropriation is ridiculous, We have always learnt and taken things from each other’s cultures. What is “Black culture” anyway ? People with black skin inhabit Nearly every country Around the world. Are they supposed to be relegated to corn rows and rap music?

so woc straightening their hair is white appropation? the whole thing is bloody ridiculous.

How about JL?!

Who cares what your son's girlfriend thinks. I honestly wouldn't have given a second thought to what an 18 year old thought when my son was that age. Being tanned isn't racist and neither is having your hair in corn rows.

@PatricksRum

White people aren't oppressed

What's your point?

Excellent post from lifeisgenerallyfun

In historical times having uncut hair was the norm for women. Having been struggling with my own unruly straight hair in lockdown I am seriously considering little side plaits to keep it off my face. Are these cornrows? You see them on statues of Roman goddesses. Doubtless would be considered historical or religious appropriation by some on this thread

@WakeAndBake she sounds very cool and successful - those are the appropriate terms to describe that woman

Beckham had his hair in cornrows when he and the England team met Nelson Mandela in South Africa. He's said he regrets that.

Opposite of black fishing...

White washing?

Now I know why people complain about casual racism on MN. I’ve never seen so much sheer ignorance on one thread. It’s shocking.

But if it's considered racist to wear cornrows or dress in the manner of a black person, is it ok for black people to straighten their hair, lighten their skin or wear westernised clothes? Genuine question here. I mean, what's the difference between 'cultural appropriation' and 'cultural influence'? Was Eminem in the wrong to rap? Is copying someone not a form of flattery too or a sign of multicultural integration? It seems to me that there are lots of very fine distinctions to be made here and lots of areas of grey. I kind of get the point about Arianna Grande, but other areas seem fuzzy to me.

@Worstemailever

But if it's considered racist to wear cornrows or dress in the manner of a black person, is it ok for black people to straighten their hair, lighten their skin or wear westernised clothes? Genuine question here. I mean, what's the difference between 'cultural appropriation' and 'cultural influence'? Was Eminem in the wrong to rap? Is copying someone not a form of flattery too or a sign of multicultural integration? It seems to me that there are lots of very fine distinctions to be made here and lots of areas of grey. I kind of get the point about Arianna Grande, but other areas seem fuzzy to me.

Have people with light skin, light hair or western clothes been discriminated against for generations for having light skin, light hair and western clothes?

I would say cornrows are not appropriate for white people.

What I don't fully understand is why copying a style from another culture isn't considered a compliment to that culture? Surely if white/Asian/Latino people want to have their hair in cornrows, it's a compliment to that style, i.e. they think they look good?

Same with dreadlocks. Wouldn't a white person choose them because they think the Rastafarian look is cool?

For context, I live in a majority Black city (more than two-thirds) so I'm not living in an ignorant bubble about BLM issues.

It's interesting that I haven't read where one person who's supposed to be on top of their 'education game' has mentioned the specific issue regarding blackfishing - which is the 'fishing' part itself. Or have I missed it?

Blackfishing isn't just about making yourself look 'black'. If that was the case, it would be a bit of a compliment really because it means they like it and want to emulate/look like it.

Yes yes racism, colourism, etc means it's more sensitive and deeper than that. How dare they like it now when their ancestors never did? How dare they want to emulate what is being used to put others down? Their flattery is suspect - it's a fetish instead and all that.

Anyway, the point of blackfishing is about making yourself look 'black' in order to gain things: more black fans/followers, companies catering to a predominantly black demographic using you as the face of their product or one of the ambassadors, widening of the dating pool to include men who'll salivate over your "exotic" or mixed race looks, etc.

It's essentially taking money/opportunities from a black person's hands because as a 'white-looking black person' or a black person with 'typically white features' or lighter dark skin, you're usually seen as the right kind of black person. Black, poc and white men will go for your ambiguousity(?) for different reasons.

Blackfishing is mainly seen in (or perhaps originated from) the instagram world with the "insta-thots", 'beauty gurus' and 'influencers'. It's all about cashing in by making yourself look ambiguous or mixed or light skin black with "prettier" and slimmer features. So this is what's wrong with blackfishing.

Not the nonsense about tanning being racist or that people shouldn't wear corn rows and dress how they like.

Also tanning and bleaching are 2 sides of the same coin. They just have different root causes and motivation.

I wouldn't say tanning is accidental..as in when you go on holiday and see everyone lying on the beach for hours and hours or buying bottles of brown tan to paint yourself in the comfort of your own home or piling on the bronzer, or injecting yourself with melanin and so on.
The sun is also very damaging for your skin.
I'm mixed race so I'm a very light brown colour, I look Italian or Latina and I do avoid the sun and slather the spf on but only because I hate the aging effects of the sun..I couldnt be arsed one way or another whether i was lighter or darker but I think it's unfair that asians or Black people get told they're wrong for wanting to be lighter whereas white peipel can darken themselves all they want

@Aloethere - I was wondering similar so I looked it up and found this - it's kind of enlightening whilst also being pretty confusing!
www.britannica.com/story/whats-the-difference-between-hispanic-and-latino
But it seems to be fairly clear that Italians are classified as white, at least in the USA.

@SimonJT But it's it better that we all start embracing influences from other cultures?

Jazz was once considered culturally inappropriate music because of its African-American roots (the Nazis were especially against it) but now it's just a musical style and widely appreciated.

Surely it's better to blend cultural influences than continue to separate them along racial lines?

@amijustparanoidorjuststoned

OP, you've clearly not kept up with the Black Lives Matter movements and discussion around racism.

I would suggest you Google this cause, as well as "black-fishing" and "cultural appropriation". I think your son's girlfriend might be taking things a tiny bit too far where the natural melanin in a person's skin is concerned if they go outside... but it's not acceptable for you to be absolutely clueless.

The post that you have written screams "white privilege" (look that up too!). Do better.

I do read some tosh on here sometimes but this post really takes the biscuit 😂

Forgot to add.....In other words, the 'blackfisher' is then fishing for any or all of these gains by pretending to be black or trying to "look black or mixed".

If tanning skin to be a brown as it will be or colouring hair black then what about having hair bleached blonde or wearing a blonde wig if a black woman.

Frankly OP @DollyDaydream70 the whole thing has become stupid.

In other words, the 'blackfisher' is then fishing for any or all of these gains by pretending to be black or trying to "look black or mixed".

But isn't every "improvement" anyone makes to themselves a type of fishing for gain?

If you're overweight and feel that others will regard you differently if you lose weight, are you fishing for gains when you decide to lose weight not entirely for medical reasons?

The list could go on and on.

@AmICrazyorWhat2

I would say cornrows are not appropriate for white people.

What I don't fully understand is why copying a style from another culture isn't considered a compliment to that culture? Surely if white/Asian/Latino people want to have their hair in cornrows, it's a compliment to that style, i.e. they think they look good?

Same with dreadlocks. Wouldn't a white person choose them because they think the Rastafarian look is cool?

For context, I live in a majority Black city (more than two-thirds) so I'm not living in an ignorant bubble about BLM issues.

I think it’s because black people have so often been criticised for wearing their hair in braids, cornrows dreadlocks etc. If you look up thread people mention incidences of black people being told their hair is too informal, scruffy, wild etc. and them feeling pressured to change it, especially in order to get on professionally. So when white people appropriate these hair styles it rubs salt in the wound - like saying “Yes I know black people are considered scruffy when they wear this hair style naturally but it’s fine for me because I chose it.” It’s not a compliment, it’s a power move, however inadvertent..

My BIL is black and we have discussed many of his experiences of systemic racism which I think would shock many people. He says that one of the insidious things which he especially dislikes, but goes unnoticed, was that people always make remarks about him being “cool” especially in relation to his hair. It’s like there’s this expectation that because he’s Black he must be “urban” or “street”.