Son's girlfriend thinks suntans are racist

[DollyDaydream70]

I could be opening a real can of worms here, but I'm genuinely gobsmacked by a few things my Son's 18yr old girlfriend said to me last night..

First of all she asked me did I think it's racist for white girls to copy black girl's style. I had no clue what she was referring to as 'black girl's style' so asked her to elaborate. She then referred to a singer called Ariane Grande (who I know literally 0 about) and said that she tans herself until she's almost black and 'dresses like a black girl'.

I've Googled said singer and all I can find is a pic of her with Nikki Minaj where, yes, she looks dark, but so what? We've been tanning since Coco Chanel made it stylish in the 1920's, and probably long before that! What are we supposed to do? Stay indoors when the sun shines ffs?!!

Son's GF also stated that it's racist for a white person to wear corn rows in their hair. I told her that my friends and I used to corn row our hair a lot in the mid to late 80's, we used to stick wooden or plastic beads on the ends of our plaits, it was quite the fashion at the time!

What do you all think about this? Please tell me this is all going too far. I'm genuinely quite perplexed that tanning and corn rows could be deemed to be racist!

@SimonJT

Indeed it only appears to work one way.... Micheal Jackson for example and his sister continuously lightened their skin as many others do. Or the hair straightening, lightening of hair, etc that many black women do.... should I be offended that they might imitate my pale skin ... seriously it's ridiculous. ...Queue the jumping up and down of the permanently outraged by anything brigade!

I find the argument "no, you can't wear it because the group who now predominantly wears it was and is discriminated for it" bit odd if I am honest. I get for example bindi, because that has actual significant meaning.

Cornrows and very similar hair styles, however, were at one point or another all over the world. Because it's practical. It stopped your hair going into your face when you were running after livestock, working on fields, fighting in a battle etc.

Also. Since we are on race changing...
Rachel Dolezal. Where the hell does that stand🤔

[quote ResumetonormalASAP]@SimonJT

Indeed it only appears to work one way.... Micheal Jackson for example and his sister continuously lightened their skin as many others do. Or the hair straightening, lightening of hair, etc that many black women do.... should I be offended that they might imitate my pale skin ... seriously it's ridiculous. ...Queue the jumping up and down of the permanently outraged by anything brigade![/quote]
Have people with pale skin faced generations of abuse for having pale skin?
Have people with pale hair faced generations of abuse for having pale hair?
Have people with straight hair faced generations of abuse for having straight hair?
Has straight hair been banned by any schools in the UK?

@LizzieVereker

This makes me wonder if you are my sister 🤣 my partner is black and he has this constantly! He's always so "cool" 🙄 or hugely sexually objectified

Everyone going on about "well everyone wears western clothes" or "black people dying their hair blonde/straightening their hair/lightening their skin" have a serious think about it.
Why are other cultures wearing western fashion? Could it be because the west have dominated the entertainment industry? Even the corporate world? For many, in order to be successful you have to conform. For white people that might mean wearing a tie or dying our your grey, for others it means not visibly identifying as your own culture, going through painful and damaging procedures etc.
At the end of the day, if you're a black person wearing cornrows, people will make a snap judgement and think you're a wanna be gangster and potentially dangerous. If you're a white person wearing cornrows then you're just a white person wearing cornrows. If you get any grief you can take them out and forget it ever happened. If you're black and get grief then you either accept it and live with it, being discrimated against, or you westernise yourself.

It’s interesting isn’t it that most experts agree the phrase of cultural appropriation came from the works of one (white) man called Kenneth Coutts -Smith (although it had been alluded to earlier) as a combination of the Marxist concept of class appropriation and what he called cultural colonialism.

This therefore very much relies on Someone with white maleprivelege defining how the oppressed should feel about something-how very ironic.

He says that one of the insidious things which he especially dislikes, but goes unnoticed, was that people always make remarks about him being “cool” especially in relation to his hair.

But does he look cool? Is he a man with style? How does he wear his hair?

Some people just ooze cool and other people can’t help but be impressed. It sounds like he is being complimented and people admire him.

What a bummer!

Wow, I've learnt something today! I had assumed Ariana Grande was black.

Sometimes (but many times really) the racist thing goes too far. Corn plaits with or without beads to me are horrible on black or white people. If anyone really wants to wear their like this go ahead. As for tanning I prefer a tan from the sunshine it is natural for us to tan and these days especially healthy with the D and K vitamins I believe you absorb and can help prevent the covid 19 (I believe). Let's just get on with our lives as best we all can. This 18 year old sounds like a real p in the a to me. I suppose she is a vegan too (like mine) if she's not then there's a topic you can bring up ......

If you're a white person wearing cornrows then you're just a white person wearing cornrows

Most white people wearing cornrows are young girls who have just come back from holiday somewhere hot and the braids will have been done by a black person on the beach for cash. How is this a problem for anyone?

In a corporate environment I have never seen a white woman in cornrows.

Everyday is a school day. I have heard of cultural appropriation but i have never heard of black fishing.

The gf sounds interesting to say the least. I am also half sicilian and half Scottish. I take after the sicilian side and am naturally very dark skinned with dark extremely curly hair. I go really dark in the sun. So dark that I have been asked if I am mixed race. I was bullied throughout primary and high school because of my hair and if I am honest if someone started to accuse me of black fishing or cultural appropriation because of my hair or the fact that my skin goes extremely dark in the sun (no matter how much sun cream I use) I would tell them to fuck off. I hated that mean girls shit at school, no way am I taking that crap now, no matter how well meant it is. I can't help my skin or my hair, anymore than a bame woman can.

That's a problem I can see with this, how do you know for sure that a person's hair or skin colour is not naturally theirs? White people are no more a homogeneous mass than black people. Also there is no way of knowing anyone's ethnic history. Genetics are a funny thing and it's not unheard of for someone to be a 'throwback'.

I realise I sound clumsy, I find all of this quite difficult to get my head round. I don't want to be offensive to bame people and would hate to think that a bame person thought I was mocking them just because of the way I look.

Ok, I apologise for something I did almost 40 years ago that had no bearing on you or your life, that in fact made no difference to anyone, ever.

Bother, wrong thread, not even sure how I managed to do that!

But did you culturally appropriate something, Wednesday ? You may be on the right thread by accident. (Spooky)

Wonder what she would make of the fact I am black but also like a suntan. She's ridiculous! A lot of people just feel a healthier glow with a bit of a darker colour. Sigh!

@LizzieVereker But we need to get past this "it's OK for one group but not for another" mentality, don't we? I honestly think it's a generational shift. My DD and DS go to school with kids of all ethnic backgrounds and they don't see cultural differences in the same way their grandparents did. DD (15) sees her friends' braids as a hairstyle, that's all.

Re. @SimonJT's points. What he says is true about abuse. We have to find ways to move past it, though, not perpetuate the divides between people.

She does know black people tan as well?

From vague knowledge, Ariane Grande was a Disney child star and was made up to look fairer than she actually was when younger. Now that she is older and has the money and clout to determine her own style, she's no longer having to make herself look like a blue eyed blonde All American girl.

[quote ResumetonormalASAP]@SimonJT

Indeed it only appears to work one way.... Micheal Jackson for example and his sister continuously lightened their skin as many others do. Or the hair straightening, lightening of hair, etc that many black women do.... should I be offended that they might imitate my pale skin ... seriously it's ridiculous. ...Queue the jumping up and down of the permanently outraged by anything brigade![/quote]
I’m not jumping up and down or permanently outraged, honestly I’m not.

But can you not see that that it is understandable that after decades of being on the receiving end of racist comments about their hair or skin, some black people might choose to make their skin or hair “whiter”, as this is more acceptable to society, for example in order to succeed professionally? And that this is not the same as white people changing their hair/ clothes to look black in order to make money, whilst people with naturally black skin/ hair are still being discriminated against.

Quick example - my DH is white, my BIL is black. Same age, grew up in same area. Same school, same friends, same hobbies.

My BIL is stopped and searched on average three or four times a year (more when he was younger). This has never happened to my DH. No one has ever yelled wg or n*r at my DH, or any word which is equivalent in its hatefulness. This happens at EVERY football match my BIL goes to. Just before lockdown he was filling up his car with petrol and was asked where he was going, why. Just a youngish man filling up his nice car with petrol. This will never happen to my DH.

This is why copying black culture, which is held in such low esteem is not OK, particularly to make money out of it and it’s not the same as black people feeling marginalised enough to make themselves look whiter.

I remember when Rita Ora first became famous, lots of people thought she was black and she was compared a lot to Rihanna

I agree with the posters who said she is talking about cultural appropriation. The racist element isn't so much that AG tans to look dark/wears black cultural clothing etc, it's more the fact that these things are often considered unattractive on a black girl but cool on a white girl.

I can see why that might rankle.

WakeansBake I'm not sure you understood my point at all.
No where did I say that white people wore cornrows in a corporate environment.
I said that a white person wearing cornrows can easily take them out and forget they ever wore them if they receive backlash.

Rita Ora as a child, it would be easy to think she is mixed race

The racist element isn't so much that AG tans to look dark/wears black cultural clothing etc, it's more the fact that these things are often considered unattractive on a black girl but cool on a white girl.

I am confused. What is the black cultural clothing in this case?