Son's girlfriend thinks suntans are racist

[DollyDaydream70]

I could be opening a real can of worms here, but I'm genuinely gobsmacked by a few things my Son's 18yr old girlfriend said to me last night..

First of all she asked me did I think it's racist for white girls to copy black girl's style. I had no clue what she was referring to as 'black girl's style' so asked her to elaborate. She then referred to a singer called Ariane Grande (who I know literally 0 about) and said that she tans herself until she's almost black and 'dresses like a black girl'.

I've Googled said singer and all I can find is a pic of her with Nikki Minaj where, yes, she looks dark, but so what? We've been tanning since Coco Chanel made it stylish in the 1920's, and probably long before that! What are we supposed to do? Stay indoors when the sun shines ffs?!!

Son's GF also stated that it's racist for a white person to wear corn rows in their hair. I told her that my friends and I used to corn row our hair a lot in the mid to late 80's, we used to stick wooden or plastic beads on the ends of our plaits, it was quite the fashion at the time!

What do you all think about this? Please tell me this is all going too far. I'm genuinely quite perplexed that tanning and corn rows could be deemed to be racist!

Are you saying that the red headed person above is AG?

Really?

Never would have believed it

No I don’t think sun tanning is racist. Unhealthy yes but not racist

I used to have braids in my hair when I was kid but it was done abroad by black women as a tourist trap.
Is this racist or is this providing a living for the women?

So if white women cant braid their hair, should black women straighten theirs? Cultural approbation goes both ways.
Also, Ariana Grande is Hispanic/Latino and so isn't white. Hispanic fashion is very similar to black fashion, so she's probably just dressing the same way as her own culture anyway.
I think if you like a style then why not wear it? If you're taking the piss out of something or someone then obviously that's bad.

I think a lot of the time people wilfully misinterpret discussions like this to be all like 'it's PC gone mad/you can't say anything any more/now sun tans are racist? Good grief' without actually listening to or caring about or even engaging with the nuance and complexities of the debate, just automatically becoming defensive and hyperbolic.
And that's one of the reasons why structural racism is alive and well in this country.

No a tan is not racist.

The hair is a seperate issue, afro type hair is still considered scruffy, messy, unprofessional etc in a lot of places including the UK. So it can be very insulting if a person without afro type hair then takes on certain styles as they have an active choice to, where as due to ignorance many black people (particularly women) are forced to have certain hairstyles to meet the professional standards of white people, said styles are normally costly, can be painful and can cause long term damage.

Arianas family are from Southern Italy, like lots of people from Southern Italy with the use of the sun (or in Ariana’s case sunbeds) a fairly quickly developed and dark tan is very common due to thr arabic genetic influence of ‘native’ Southern Italians.

I’m Pakistani, it isn’t uncommon for people from Southern Italy to have darker skin than me.

@MrsFionaCharming

I don’t know much about her, but I always thought AG was a woman of colour. Having just googled I’m a bit shocked. Is this not essentially blackface?

It’s specifically called black fishing. Blackface is similar but more temporary in nature than blackfishing in that you can take blackface on and off within hours. So, black face is makeup, wigs/hair styling, fake tan, etc. Usually to mock or pretend. Blackfishing is when you make more permanent or long lasting changes to gradually transform your physical appearance to be racially ambiguous or black.

@Bluntness100

Amijust, your post is rude, someone asked a question. A belittling answer is not acceptable.

Do better,

Agreed.

@MrsFionaCharming My Son's girlfriend stated last night that she thinks suntanning is racist, hence my title. I can't prove to you that this happened, but I can assure you that it did. Therefore my title isn't intentionally anything, it is just fact.

@loutypips Ariana Grande is not Hispanic, she is part Italian.

Also, Ariana Grande is Hispanic/Latino and so isn't white.

No, she’s not Hispanic/Latino. She is Italian American and IS WHITE.

@StatementKnickers

I would say cornrows are not appropriate for white people but I think saying we shouldn't tan is a bit much! I love to have a tan but it's not because I'm trying to look black (chance would be a fine thing with my pasty English complexion).

If I remember the cornrow fashion for white people started with Bo Derek in the film 10. I'm not sure they are appropriate now though.

Arianas family are from Southern Italy, like lots of people from Southern Italy with the use of the sun (or in Ariana’s case sunbeds) a fairly quickly developed and dark tan is very common due to thr arabic genetic influence of ‘native’ Southern Italians

I’m Pakistani, it isn’t uncommon for people from Southern Italy to have darker skin than me

Exactly.

I actually do completely appreciate the culture appropriation side, like hair styles etc... But the tan thing I think is a bit OTT, especially on someone who is likely to have naturally olive skin which tans easily, like someone of southern Italian descent say...

I’m a bit that you haven’t heard of Ariana Grande due to the terrorist attack at one of her concerts in Manchester a few years ago even if you don’t listen to the news. That apart, It’s amazing what people have the energy to get offended about these days. So she has a very deep tan. Tans are more about status, showing you have the money to go abroad on holiday etc, just as being pale used to be the high status look , proving you didn’t have to work in the fields. You could also argue she’s proving dark is beautiful.

What about henna?

That’s a big part of Indian culture especially for weddings. It’s it racists for people to have henna tattoos on holiday?

There are so many cultural crossovers. There really are

The issue with corn rows is that black women are often told that their hairstyles are unprofessional when often they're protective for their hair types. When white women wear them they're 'cool' and allowed. It's the double standards. Also ridiculous to imply that black women can't wear their hair straight as its cultural appropriation black women can and do have naturally straight hair too ya know.

That picture of Ariana is photoshopped - here is another picture of her from a few years ago compared to a picture of her at the same event the 'black fishing' photo was taken at. I'm not saying it isn't a problem that girls are doing it, just that the picture of Ariana isn't a good example.

she's probably just dressing the same way as her own culture anyway.
What culture is that? She is a private school educated white rich girl with a CEO mum and a business owner/president Dad from Florida.

whataboutbob but that's exactly it.

If someone argues that Ariana Grande, a white woman, is the one who is proving dark is beautiful, not a black woman, then that to me could be a racist perspective.

^See, dark CAN be beautiful if it is a white woman doing it with fake tan, make-up and hair extensions*

@whataboutbob posters on this thread have explained to you why this isn't so for Ariana Grande but you refuse to listen. Do you always have this issue when someone points out someone's behaviour is racist?

I watch the news a lot, but wouldn't be able to tell you anything about Ariana Grande except that she is a singer popular with young girls.
I wouldn't be able to identify her in a line up of similar artists.

Not everyone follows popular culture and entertainment.

On Facebook someone wrote something about box braids, dreadlocks and cornrows that really resonated with me.

Growing up her mum had dreadlocks and she always faced comments saying how they smelled, she was unhygienic and how disgusting they were. It took people like Kim Kardashian to make them acceptable and now seen as fashion and it's something she can't help but feel pissed off about

A tan is not racist, it's ridiculous to even state that

Good grief! Likewise, does that mean that black women are not allowed to wear "white fashion" (whatever that is) or dye their hair blond?

@whataboutbob Being a Mancunian myself, I have 'heard' of Ariane, but that is where my knowledge of her ends. I don't know anything about her musically or style wise, or what she stands for. Maybe I should've worded my post better, this being mumsnet and all.

Ariana's heritage is Italian, therefore she will tan very darkly. There are many photos of her with varying degrees of tan. My DH is of English heritage but when he tans he also goes very dark. Would your son's gf say the same about someone like Monroe Bergdorf, who as a teen boy had very dark skin, but as a transwoman has much lighter skin, with straight blonde hair?

Black women are told they have to straighten their hair by society who says their natural hair is unprofessional, scruffy, wild, fluffy or any of the host of derogatory terms. They must conform to western ideals of beauty which is sleek, shiny hair.

If you're interested I would recommend a book called Don't Touch My Hair By Emma Dabiri - it's excellent.