Son's girlfriend thinks suntans are racist

[DollyDaydream70]

I could be opening a real can of worms here, but I'm genuinely gobsmacked by a few things my Son's 18yr old girlfriend said to me last night..

First of all she asked me did I think it's racist for white girls to copy black girl's style. I had no clue what she was referring to as 'black girl's style' so asked her to elaborate. She then referred to a singer called Ariane Grande (who I know literally 0 about) and said that she tans herself until she's almost black and 'dresses like a black girl'.

I've Googled said singer and all I can find is a pic of her with Nikki Minaj where, yes, she looks dark, but so what? We've been tanning since Coco Chanel made it stylish in the 1920's, and probably long before that! What are we supposed to do? Stay indoors when the sun shines ffs?!!

Son's GF also stated that it's racist for a white person to wear corn rows in their hair. I told her that my friends and I used to corn row our hair a lot in the mid to late 80's, we used to stick wooden or plastic beads on the ends of our plaits, it was quite the fashion at the time!

What do you all think about this? Please tell me this is all going too far. I'm genuinely quite perplexed that tanning and corn rows could be deemed to be racist!

My view is that all cultures borrow from others and as long as it's not done in a mocking or derogatory way it's really not a problem.

We are now all part of the same world, we are all equal and we need to stop thinking about our differences and start concentrating on the things we have in common.

Images

@MrsFionaCharming is it actually not real though? Some people do tan a lot. I have very pale skin (especially after living in Britain for a few years but not having done summer for two or three as a result of travel to opposite hemisphere during British summer) but I tan very dark relative to my skin tone if I’m in the sun for long enough. See for example skin tone with very limited sub exposure for years (pale ivory), usual skin tone (Ivory/Rose Beige) and, skin tone after a few weeks of constant sun exposure (honey). I appreciate that it’s unusual for British people to tan like that but many Caucasian people do tan with rather significant tone changes if they spend enough time in the sun. My husband and children also go through several skin tones given sun exposure.

many of us had never heard of Ariana Grande until the Manchester bombing - to many she is still just another singer who wastes her good voice on songs with one note that bore on about relationships, but that's another thread.

however she is no longer a child star, she is 27 and so can be presumed able to think for herself. And certainly has the money to do what she wants.

how does a black girl dress, pray? That sounds racist sterotyping in itself.

Divoc I think that's why we need to discuss things like this and not just get defensive and start taking the piss like a lot of posters on this thread are doing.

There's obviously not a clear yes or no answer to many of these situations, but I think a good rule of thumb might be that if the majority of people of the culture from which you are appropriating, think it is offensive, then yes it might be an idea to not do it.
But we can't know that unless we can have a fair and open debate.

Like, I don't think i would buy a fake islamic prayer mat from Etsy because I thought it looked like a cool wall hanging, but yes I would cook Caribbean food for my family (just maybe not write my own recipe for Jollof Rice and sell it...)

@Soontobe60

Images

One of those has been photoshopped, clearly. To make out she looks darker than she is?

Part of the issue with AG though is that she is heavily tanned in her music video etc but washes the tan off for her vogue front cover.

@Divoc2020

I understand the argument about e.g. the double standards inherent in telling black women that braids are unprofessional, yet suddenly making them cool on white women.

What I find difficult sometimes is in the crossover between what I would consider 'multi-culturalism' and the accusations of cultural appropriation. It seems to me that if people admire an aspect of another culture and want to share in it/ emulate it then it has the potential to be something that brings people together?

So e.g.

• Jazz music
• Indian food in the UK
• The whole 'Bollywood' thing (my Indian friend organises Bollywood balls and parties - isn't she appropriating her own culture?)

-What about rap music?

• Or Yoga?
• Hoop earrings?
• Sarongs?

-Chinese medicine?

Great point - multiculturalism is now considered bad and cultural segregation is trendy. It's exclusionary and regressive to limit our experiences and tastes to only those of our own culture. Black people should be free to straighten their hair and white people should be free to wear cornrows. Does anybody here remember Martin Luther King's dream where people might be judged not by the color of their skin but by the content of their character?

I’ve got similar skin to AG, I go the colour of the dark skin photos naturally in the summer. Thanks to a sunny lockdown & lots of gardening I’m pretty much that colour now. I can only avoid it by not leaving the house. I’d be pretty pissed of to be accused of black fishing due to something my skin naturally does

I'm caucasian with straight, blonde hair but I tan very easily and never fake tan mostly because I'd be afraid that it would smudge, streak or I'd be orange. I've never had cornrows.

Beyoncé has weaves and lightens her hair. Meghan Markle straightens her hair. Ariana Grande has curly hair and wears a straight pony tail, also often coloured lighter. Michelle Obama straightens her hair. Halle Berry straightens and often lightens her hair. If that's what they choose, that's their prerogative.

There are very few women, whatever their ethnicity, who don't do something to change their hair colour and appearance. It's a terrible shame that we can't be content as we are, I absolutely include myself in this.

I do think that cornrows and other examples of cultural appropriation should be avoided in the current climate but I welcome the time when we can all wear what we want to and wear our hair however we want to. All of us, no matter our cultural background.

Women have fought and continue to fight for the right to choose the way they look without criticism. I think supporting all women to be as they want to be is incredibly important.

@larrythelizard HAHAHAHA! That's hilarious. I wonder if they are......?

As far as tans go isn't it more of a class thing, didn't the Victorians think tans were to be avoided because they made you look like a working class labourer who was out in the sun a lot?

Women and men have platted their hair in Africa and Europe for thousands of years.

nancy75
I’ve got similar skin to AG, I go the colour of the dark skin photos naturally in the summer. Thanks to a sunny lockdown & lots of gardening I’m pretty much that colour now. I can only avoid it by not leaving the house. I’d be pretty pissed of to be accused of black fishing due to something my skin naturally does

I googled a minute ago and there is a good article arguing that AG is a “blackfish” and it’s a lot more than a tan. I’d like to think no one would accuse you of such a thing just for being tanned (although I suppose you never know).

@amijustparanoidorjuststoned

OP, you've clearly not kept up with the Black Lives Matter movements and discussion around racism.

I would suggest you Google this cause, as well as "black-fishing" and "cultural appropriation". I think your son's girlfriend might be taking things a tiny bit too far where the natural melanin in a person's skin is concerned if they go outside... but it's not acceptable for you to be absolutely clueless.

The post that you have written screams "white privilege" (look that up too!). Do better.

For heaven's sake

The gf isn't talking about BLM, she's virtue signalling. Everyone's education needs to start somewhere. Just because the OP isn't aware of every tiny thing that can accidentally be deemed as a cultural appropriation and therefore offensive doesn't mean she needs to ' do better'

The thing with hair is that for many, many generations of black people, they've been told to "tame their hair" or "sort your hair out" when they wear it naturally. I won't pretend to know all the correct terminology but when they have worn their hair naturally, they have been repeatedly told that they need to tame it, straighten it etc, that they look scruffy and unprofessional.
Many chemically straighten their hair which is quite bad for it just to fit in.
No one has ever told me to tame my hair or sort it out for it being in its natural state. I don't feel any pressure to add chemicals to it in order to be taken seriously in a job interview.

I do wear fake tan as I'm very, very pale. As in almost see through. Even the palest foundations in shops are usually too dark for me. People always tell me that I look ill or that I need to get a tan to look healthy. It's incredibly frustrating that people feel the need to comment on this. However I haven't ever been turned down for an opportunity because I'm too pale. However if I did decide to use dark fake tan to look racially ambiguous, if I received any negative treatment, I could go home and take it off and that problem is over. A black person does not have that luxury

There are very few women, whatever their ethnicity, who don't do something to change their hair colour and appearance. It's a terrible shame that we can't be content as we are, I absolutely include myself in this.

I change my hair colour because I like what I've changed it to, not because I don't like my natural colour. I don't see it as anything different to changing clothes, I choose them because I like them. I change my earrings and jewellery regularly, and sometimes I change my hair because I can, I fancy a change.

@Oxyiz

So in young, woke world it's deeply offensive for a white female singer to have a dark tan and "appropriate" the language or hairstyle of another culture ... but meanwhile it's definitely fine and not sexist at all these days if a man puts on makeup, wig and prosthetics and a high voice and call himself a woman?

Interesting times we live in.

Excellent point

My husband is middle eastern and changes number of shades when tanned... Many people from med I know are similar that's why there are pics with different shades🤷🏻 Bar the photoshoped ones. Not everyone stays 1 shade of white no matter what the season is like me...

Where I am from cornrows were not girl's fashion but boy's thanks to Sean Paul.

It is so patronising to tell someone they should 'properly educate the selves about x'. Just eff off.

@bettsbattenburg

As far as tans go isn't it more of a class thing, didn't the Victorians think tans were to be avoided because they made you look like a working class labourer who was out in the sun a lot?

But that idea changed. When I grew up in the 70s, it was definitely the case that people would boast about a tan from a holiday abroad, because most people didn't go abroad from my area then, so the tan was definitely about status, not race.

If any of my relations lectures me on the ludicrous white privilege I will tell them in that case they won’t want any property/cash out of my will, so I will leave it to the dog’s home that will shut the little idiots up.

@Newdaynewname1

One of the problems is that „white“ us so relative. A friend of my son is half from southern italy, half romanian traveller. She looks black. Extremely tight curls, very dark skin. She is technically white european, practically she looks aborigine.

This is very true for me , I am white British, have very olive skin, very curly Black hair and very dark Brown eyes. I have darker skin than some of my mixed race friends.