Son's girlfriend thinks suntans are racist

[DollyDaydream70]

I could be opening a real can of worms here, but I'm genuinely gobsmacked by a few things my Son's 18yr old girlfriend said to me last night..

First of all she asked me did I think it's racist for white girls to copy black girl's style. I had no clue what she was referring to as 'black girl's style' so asked her to elaborate. She then referred to a singer called Ariane Grande (who I know literally 0 about) and said that she tans herself until she's almost black and 'dresses like a black girl'.

I've Googled said singer and all I can find is a pic of her with Nikki Minaj where, yes, she looks dark, but so what? We've been tanning since Coco Chanel made it stylish in the 1920's, and probably long before that! What are we supposed to do? Stay indoors when the sun shines ffs?!!

Son's GF also stated that it's racist for a white person to wear corn rows in their hair. I told her that my friends and I used to corn row our hair a lot in the mid to late 80's, we used to stick wooden or plastic beads on the ends of our plaits, it was quite the fashion at the time!

What do you all think about this? Please tell me this is all going too far. I'm genuinely quite perplexed that tanning and corn rows could be deemed to be racist!

Hi, OP, I know, this is a complicated era

It’s not complicated in the slightest. Not if you have an a ounce of sense.

I just looked her up as a child nancy75 and she does look mixed race! I would have though she was black/white. And that’s without trying to look that way so I can see why people though it when she first came out.

But if it's considered racist to wear cornrows or dress in the manner of a black person, is it ok for black people to straighten their hair, lighten their skin or wear westernised clothes?

I don't know how it's possible to be so unaware of white western woman being deemed the 'ideal beauty standard', and the harsh effect of growing up within that on black girls and women in terms of wanting to feel beautiful too, in a world that seems them not to be so.

I have white friends who 'get it' and wouldn't ask such a silly question.

You can have all the positive reinforcement at home. Still have to go out into the world of life and work

That picture of Ariana Grande is so edited it’s laughable

As for tanning I prefer a tan from the sunshine it is natural for us to tan and these days especially healthy with the D and K vitamins I believe you absorb and can help prevent the covid 19 (I believe)

None of that is remotely true. You don’t need a tan to get vitamin D, it doesn’t prevent Covid, but repeated exposure to the sun on unprotected skin may well give you skin cancer.

they don't see cultural differences in the same way their grandparents did. DD (15) sees her friends' braids as a hairstyle, that's all.

You might want to have a look at why “I don’t see colour” actually isn’t a good thing. Your 15 year old should have an awareness of the cultural differences between her and her friends.

Can't people just wear what they want or have their hair how they want because that's what they like?

What a crock of shit. I got booted from a forum once over this. Apparently it is cultural appropriation. But I pointed out I got a great suntan one summer working as a roadsweeper. I'd rather have been in the pub. Someone came on and said they would have a done manual work but they had a disability. I'm sorry , says I , but how is this relevant? Admin! Ableist comment. Kicked out lol!

My BIL is black and we have discussed many of his experiences of systemic racism which I think would shock many people. He says that one of the insidious things which he especially dislikes, but goes unnoticed, was that people always make remarks about him being “cool” especially in relation to his hair. It’s like there’s this expectation that because he’s Black he must be “urban” or “street”.

I can understand this. It goes back to being seen as a caricature and it’s anorher lazy stereotype.

I admit I'm a little confused by this...when J was 18 (2005) at our 6 form prom I attempted to do my hair and botched it utterly. In my panic I went to my best friend (who was black Jamaican) and her Mum did my hair in the most amazing cornrows I've ever seen. I loved them and felt brilliant all night. I'm a redheaded white girl.

I look back on my prom photos with great fondness and I would be so gutted if people looking at them now would accuse me of cultural appropriation.

I not J obviously!

The difficulty is where to draw the line. I 'get' cultural appropriation in theory, but it feels like someone else making rules for me and not for themselves.

I have no wish to wear my hair in cornrows (which I disliked on Bo Derek in the film 10 in 1979, though I couldn't put my finger on why, they just felt 'wrong'). But are they just black fashion or Rastafarian religious style?

A zoo (?) recently was criticised for referring to one of their animals jokingly as 'thicc' - which they believed was just modern cool slang for 'overweight.' They were told it was cultural appropriation and ended up apologising publicly - but the (presumed white US) members of my Facebook cat group use it. So is 'thicc' now acceptable, having entered general usage, or not? Who gets to decide? 'BAME people' have no single voice or representative organisation.

What about fancy dress costumes? I'm English. Is it OK if I throw a Chinese-themed party, and my guests wear Chinese clothing/costumes? Is it acceptable for me to throw a Scottish party and wear a kilt? My sister did both of these in the 1990s, but I know things have changed.

Can my child wear a cowboy outfit if I'm not American? If that's OK, is it also OK for her to dress as a Native American?

So the old double standard was:

Black women get described as unprofessional and are berated for hair and style choices
White women make the same style choices and get praise

And we think the right way to resolve the double standard is...to berate the white women for those style choices, too? Or just to reverse the double standard so there still is one, but it's now favorable in the opposite direction?

Doesn't this have the net effect of creating a one-way cultural valve: since darker-skinned people aren't doing any kind of nasty "appropriation" by imitating dominant lighter-skinned cultures, they can always get "whiter" in terms of cultural styles, while white people are stopped from "acting darker" with threats of cancellation.

It seems to me the same old segregation and "don't act black" pressure that I heard from adults when I was young, now with new woke clothes. If this idea had been around in the 1950s when rock music was getting off the ground, white kids wouldn't have been able to listen to it. Too appropriative of black sounds. In other words, the same net effect as the fundamentalist Christians of the day were trying to have, stopping their kids from listening to the "devil's music" because it was too black...but now, in a form that shields the segregator from leftist critique.

Ariana Grande is of Sicilian-Abruzzan descent. This means she very likely has all sorts of ancestors.

@PlanDeRaccordement
The population of Sicily is descended from Greeks, North Africans - Tunisian Aghlabids, Berbers/Maghrebis, Carthaginians, Jews, Arabs/Fatimids, Normans, and northern Italians (Lombards and others) with earlier populations including Alans (Persian), Goths (Germanic), and all the many populations introduced into the Italian peninsula as slaves by the Romans and before them the Greeks. In addition, Sicily was always a trading post with numerous ports in continuous operation since Roman times and even earlier. Your argument that the Arabs (it was the Fatimids actually) only ruled Sicily for 200 years and therefore AG couldn't possibly have naturally dark skin doesn't hold water.

I have distant ancestors from the southern Mediterranean, according to 23and Me. I have no idea who they were. I do know that my mother's family are all sallow-skinned with eyes on a spectrum of green to dark brown, black brown hair, and they can a achieve a 'two weeks in Ibiza' tan while bringing out the bin. My two sisters were always asked (by people talking slowly) if they were Spanish or Italian. We are Irish.

AG is just one of many silly young girls who thinks it's cool to try and look black. What complicates things is that a lot of these silly girls appear to want to be black - I know someone like this. She lives in Notting hill and has a lot of black friends so is no doubt trying to be one of the gang (as in group). Everyone is remarkably tolerant of her and I think they just feel like she's trying to fit in, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery etc. She's not got much of an identity of her own and is of Mediterranean descent anyway so does tan quite dark.

Obviously a tan is not in and of itself racist but copying the style of another race is definitely not cool.

Mostly though I think these people just look like fuckwits. Corn rows on white women never look good and it's all a bit silly attention seeking imho. If I was black I'd be like 🙄🙄🙄.

And it is offensive. As is all the white boys pretending to be cool rappers while living with mum and dad. But it is also part of being a dim witted teenager. Much less forgivable in an adult I think.

I think the world has gone mad!

Here's an explanation online OP:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/thetab.com/uk/2019/02/08/ariana-grande-is-a-blackfish-and-these-are-the-receipts-91714/amp

I am HUGELY supportive of racial equality... but to be honest I don't think you can OWN a skin colour or hairstyle... plenty of black women straighten/bleach their hair or get green/blue contacts for eg...

I also think people could use their time more productively to help fight racism - rather than bothering about how tanned someone is. There. I've said it.

@SimonJT, have you ever heard of anyone with red hair being bullied?
Have you ever run across the term 'ginger'? 'Ginger minge'?

A good deal of anti-Irish prejudice still exists in the UK, and people of all ages who have the stereotypical red hair, pale, freckled 'Irish' skin tend to be singled out.

I also think people could use their time more productively to help fight racism - rather than bothering about how tanned someone is. There. I've said it.

Ab-so-fucking-lutely.

copying the style of another race is definitely not cool

It is or should be unless it's done for sinister reasons.

Corn rows on white women never look good and it's all a bit silly attention seeking imho

Why do you think so? Attention seeking for what?

If I was black I'd be like 🙄🙄🙄.

Why? Assuming this person is doing it because they think it looks nice and not as a form of blackfishing, why is it a bad thing?

And it is offensive. As is all the white boys pretending to be cool rappers while living with mum and dad

What's wrong with that? Aren't we all allowed to copy or pretend to be what we think is cool/beautiful/etc? (Again for innocent reasons)

Isn't this how the new generation would learn to come together and enjoy what each other has to offer rather than dividing, staying separated squabbling over minor details claiming "this is your portion and this is my portion. Now go your way, mind your own business and stay away from my space"?

@SimonJT, have you ever heard of anyone with red hair being bullied?
Have you ever run across the term 'ginger'? 'Ginger minge'?
A good deal of anti-Irish prejudice still exists in the UK, and people of all ages who have the stereotypical red hair, pale, freckled 'Irish' skin tend to be singled out.

If someone (anyone!) masqueraded as an Irish person in order to try and further their career and boost their income they’d probably be called out for it too. Surely?! Can’t think of a time when anyone would do that though...

Here's an explanation online OP

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/thetab.com/uk/2019/02/08/ariana-grande-is-a-blackfish-and-these-are-the-receipts-91714/amp

Good article. I agree with all that. It's fucked up when white celebrities do this.

However! I also agree with the PP who said this:

And we think the right way to resolve the double standard is...to berate the white women for those style choices, too? Or just to reverse the double standard so there still is one, but it's now favorable in the opposite direction?

If we're simply talking about random people wearing braids or dreadlocks or whatever, rather than celebs cashing in on the "exoticness" of other cultures, then the aim should be that nobody of any race ever gets berated or looked down on or judged for how they wear their hair, rather than saying white people shouldn't wear it that way because they don't get berated or judged for it the way black people do.

I find the argument "no, you can't wear it because the group who now predominantly wears it was and is discriminated for it" bit odd if I am honest

It only applies to certain discriminated against groups though.

Have to say as a child (i’m old) I never understood the “hate” for black people, when I’d go on holiday and the whole two weeks was focussed on turning as dark as possible.

Vodkacranberryplease

Would you say that a black person living in a majority white area, associating with white friends, wearing typical white teen styles, etc is trying to be white or lacking a personal sense of identity?

I am a bit confused by your post.

mathanxiety
Plus the NHS differentiates between White - Northern European and people from the Mediterranean for some health screenings eg, sickle cell anemia, or when the Drs were concerned DS1 might have Gilberts disease when he was jaundiced.

I've seen plenty of Italian people that are darker than my DSs (half Italian/half Filipino)

As is all the white boys pretending to be cool rappers while living with mum and dad

White boys can be cool rappers...