To need your help to stop being a doormat and get my money back from (cf?) friend

[proudoneday]

Long story short...I had a really good friend when I was younger. She was always a bit funny about money but in her words had grown up poor and I hadn't and so I always put it down to that.

Anyway we lost touch for several years. Fast forward a decade and a bit and I got back in touch with her and we hit it off big time.

She is now married and living in enormous house with consultant doctor husband.

Me and DH we are doing ok, nothing flash but no money worries.

Anyway, friend and I decided on a trip to another European destination we'd live in in our 20s together. Was an emotional trip, bit difficult at times but great experience.

I booked flights, drove to hers then drove us both to airport and parked car there (90 min detour for me to pick her up but I didn't mind).

Booked hire car the other end, paid for an inn when we go there ( sounds cheap but was around 120 quid).

We parked in city centre carpark which was £££ but she said 'don't worry I'm prepared to throw money around for an easy life' but when we came to pay the charge the next day it was all on my account and she didn't offer money.

Didn't even buy me a coffee when were there.

Yes. I know I should have called her out on her cf ery but I just assumed when we got home she'd ask me how much half the trip cost...

Anyway. We got home and a week later she said 'I'm transferring you £100 for the holiday flights'

I said, actually the trip was more than that, just your flight cost more than 100 pounds..

She said 'I'll pay you the rest later"

She's never paid more and I stupidly (yes I know I have no backbone) didn't bring it up.

Anyway she's booked a weekend away for me and her on the coast and asked me for £75 for my half of the air b n b.

Ordinarily I'd pay it but our European trip cost me in the region of £700 and she gave me £100

Well you trusted her to act as you would have acted in her place. Now you know what she's like. I'd say something like 'I'd love to go, but I'm still out of pocket from our last trip.' Then leave the ball in her court. She can hardly carry on with planning without first addressing the previous trip. And if she does try to, you know she's a CF and is just trying to get you to pay for the next one.

Anyway she's booked a weekend away for me and her on the coast and asked me for £75 for my half of the air b n b.

Did you even discuss/agree to that or has she just done it and assumed you'll be on board with (a) doing it and (b) paying for it?

So are you telling us that when you booked the car hire, you didn't say to her "I'm booking the Mondeo model, that's £40 each plus petrol, that OK with you?" Or the second time you refuelled "I got the last tank full, you OK to get this one?" Or at check out when you knew you'd already paid for evening "you OK to put this on your card?" Didn't cross your mind?

And that when you booked the flights you didn't say "I've found flights for £209 each, shall I go ahead and book? Wanna paypal me the money?"

And that when you got home you didn't add up all the expenses and send her a summary list of how much the shared expenses are, and ask for her half?

If you’ve only now added up the money it sounds like a communication mismatch. I’m at a loss as to how, from the info you’ve given here, you come to the conclusion she’s not really a friend.

Have you, at any point, actually told her how much she owes you?

Yes I think that all the posters shouting that she's not a friend are missing the bit where you haven't actually ever told her how much she owes you or how much anything cost, except for 'the flight cost more than £100'. OK she should have messaged you to ask how much she owes, but why haven't you asked her for the money before now? She's probably used to her rich husband paying for everything when she goes anywhere.

Sounds to me like it makes her feel special when other people pay for her. It's not that she's tight, she is a bit fucked up. But do not get sucked in. Agree that you should get it off your chest and call her out on money she owes. It doesn't need to be done in aggressive way. But don't apologise for asking. People like that rely on how awkward money can be. And be very clear. Get it off your chest is my advice. However uncomfortable (?) you might feel in 'reminding' her

I'm with @StuffThem with this OP.

I go away often with a friend.

I do most of the arranging, just because, but all the way through the planning, arranging , booking and paying stage, I communicate with her BEFORE I finalise and pay.

I'm of the belief that, we don't really know what disposable income someone else has, so, it is a major faux pas to book anything for someone else without first checking that they are happy and able to pay said amount.

She may give the impression of having pots of money but fancy houses and private education don't come cheap.

Her £150 Airbnb weekend compared to your £750 break, suggests to me that you're not really on the same page regarding spending.

Ask her for the money and see her reaction.

Then decide if she is a friend or not.
(If you want to be kind and spare her feelings, you can always say you appreciate the Pandemic has made getting out to sort things, difficult for everyone but given that things are now getting back to normal, you'd appreciate getting your dosh back.)

Have you sent her a payment request yet? It’s not ok to just write it off, don’t disrespect yourself like that. Message her that she needs to pay today.

OP you definitely need to ask her for that money back.
You don't have to be a doormat.
You are better than letting her take advantage of you.

I tend to find that the more money someone has the stingier they are. Tell her you can’t afford it as you are still trying to recoup the money from your last trip.

I think I’d word it a bit differently in a text/email.

I’d find a way to say your credit card bill from the trip is now due, could she forward the money. It takes the emphasis off ‘YOU owe ME’, more WE owe the bank. Also it’s harder for her to write you off (and conveniently the debt). And makes it more time-critical without stating it in black and white.

Of course she’s done the wrong thing, but if you actually want the money back rather than just getting cross then it’s worth considering.

I’d find a way to raise casually it in front of her husband too. Those types often HATE the idea of debt or of their reputation (professional and personal) being tarnished. Even the tight ones.

Then get thee to assertiveness training- online or in person. It’s an adult life skill, and nothing to do with being nice or nasty. Good friendships work on mutual respect, and you have responsibilities on both sides of that equation.

You only need to read MN for 10 minutes to see what a life disability it can be to not have assertiveness skills. It takes a bit of practice, but certainly is less hard work than what you’re currently doing (and cheaper!)

I think I’d word it a bit differently in a text/email.

I’d find a way to say your credit card bill from the trip is now due, could she forward the money. It takes the emphasis off ‘YOU owe ME’, more WE owe the bank. Also it’s harder for her to write you off (and conveniently the debt). And makes it more time-critical without stating it in black and white.

This is nuts advice (and very unbelievable since it's been 6 months). What on earth is the value in this?

There is nothing wrong with being clear that she owes you. She does. There is no need to be aggressive or rude about it, but lying to try and make it seem like it's something it isn't is a) harder to keep up and b) kinda disrespectful when she's a friend.

Just be upfront but friendly about it. Don't stew on it until it makes you think badly of her.

I think this will work out better if you just take the emotion out of it. Now she wants money from you. I think some earlier posters put it very well, saying, "Actually, can you take it out of the ..." Reminding her of exactly what you spent money on and giving her an itemized checklist should shame her into ponying up your money. If not, oh well.

I’m sure she will expect you to book, pay for and do any driving on this trip too, as you did it before.

I think YABU because you never actually told her how much the holiday was going to cost. You just randomly paid for everything and then dropped a bill amount on her when you got back.

You needed to be clear about how much it was going to cost and you weren’t.

Get the money back and get rid of her

Also the way you went out of your way to take her to the airport (why couldn’t she get there by public transport?) and treated her like a princess by paying for stuff, and not told her what her share was, made her think you were “treating” her.

I’m sure she will expect you to book, pay for and do any driving on this trip too, as you did it before.

Seems very unlikely since she's already setting up to book the airbnb herself.

If she can’t drive how is she going to get there?

Hi OP.
If she apologised and paid her half into your bank account in a few days, would you still go to the air bnb on the coast?
Would she be getting a second chance to redeem herself in your eyes?

Your answer to that sets the tone to how you get the money back.

Have you actually told her how much she owes you?
She should have asked but if she doesn’t she’s unlike you transfer a random amount.
You you thought it was £700 for the total cost but now you’ve added it up it’s more. So it sounds like you haven’t.
Just send her a message saying let’s settle up the last trip before doing anything with the next one. Your half was x you’ve already paid £100 so can you transfer the rest.

*Thanks all.

I've just had the guts to tot it all up and for the two of us fights were 409 quid, hotel 120, car hire 100, airport parking 60 and I'm almost at my 700 before I think of factoring in petrol (in my car and the hire care), the heinously expensive city centre 24 hour carpark (let alone the 15 quid I spunked on coffee and food as I was worried she has don't eaten) I'm a dick.

Lesson learned.*

So you've just totalled it up. You can't ever have let her know how much she owes you then. She should have asked obviously but you need to work on your communication skills.

You definitely need to ask her to pay the costs for your previous holiday before you agree to go away again. Her response to this will let you know whether she is a real friend or not. Reply to her saying that she still owes you £250 from your previous trip and detail the costs. Ask her to take to £75 from that and transfer you the £175. If she fudges and stalls then she is no friend.

Absolutely, if you have only just totalled it all up, then you have probably not yet given her the itemised list. I know I'm very likely to say oh, let's just use this car park fully meaning to pay.

Fair enough that she should be asking you for the bill but rather than resent her for not asking, let her see the actual costs and say something along these lines

"Great idea for us to go away again together. I really enjoyed the last trip.

Sorry it's taken me until now to total up what I'm paid out last time, he b bus the list of things I paid for. So far, I have had £100 from you. I don't want to plan any more holidays until we have sorted out the finances for the last one. "

Simples.

Either she pays up and you go away together. And as she has already demonstrated, she collects your half in advance, which maybe a better way of working between the two of you.

Or You you can rightfully resent her for not paying her way as she promised last time. She does need to see the itemised list of expenses not just the total or so it as she suggests as you go along.

I hope it goes well.

Agree with @FinallyHere email.

I cant abide people who have to be reminded for things they owe, but she may be waiting for an itemized bill. Best outcome, she will pay quickly and you can crack on with this trip.