Freebirth. Fallen out with my friend. *title edited by MNHQ*

[whateveryouneed]

Friend is 3 months pregnant. We've been friends for around 5 years. Saw her today for the first time in 8 or so weeks. She was asking me about my pregnancy and son's birth. I was honest with her and told her how it went (she already knew a fair bit but not finer details). She said it scared her a bit hearing about my son being born blue and floppy, completely flatlined. He had to be intubated and resuscitated (he's 100% fine and healthy now).

The reason it scared her is because she's planning a freebirth. She wants to give birth in her bathtub at home (rural, about 18 miles from the nearest town, further from nearest hospital). She wants no medical assistance. Just her and her husband.

I told her (fairly firmly) that I think she needs to rethink that idea and that it could be really dangerous. She thinks that because she's not high risk (at the moment), that the chances of something going wrong are minimal. She thinks that if baby is head down that she will be fine.

AIBU to be really scared for her if she goes through with this? She's just told me she can't be friends with me throughout her pregnancy if I can't support her choice.

Not sure what to say or think...

@Wecandothis99 I will absolutely tell anyone to rethink an idea if it could potentially lead to their or their child's death or serious injury.

@Wecandothis99 I will absolutely tell anyone to rethink an idea if it could potentially lead to their or their child's death or serious injury.

There’s not a lot you can do to change her mind if she’s hell bent on being such a daft bint. You can only hope she’ll come to her senses. My grandpa delivered my mum at home( born on Boxing Day, midwife stuck in snow) and apparently it was hard and far from ideal for everyone but thankfully all was well in the end.

My son and I would both have died if I wasn’t in a hospital when giving birth. Your friend is a total idiot for wanting to endanger her own Life and her baby’s life as well as risking traumatizing her husband if something does go wrong. You can’t reason with that level of stupidity.

@coffeecak3 it is illegal for anyone other than a midwife or doctor to deliver a baby except in an emergency, therefore it is illegal for the partner to deliver the baby (unless out if necessity). Section entitled 'Attendance of unqualified persons at childbirth' of the Nursing and Midwifery Order 2001

It is not illegal for the woman to choose to freebirth and deliver her own baby.

If she has a positive outset and surrounded by people that trust her body can birth light all the thousands of generations before us then she has every chance of having the outcome she wants.
but all the thousands of generations before us had a higher foetal and maternal rate. If many of us on the thread had been giving birth in those thousand of generations before us, we'd either be grieving the loss of our child or we;d be dead

So there will be nobody present to weigh the baby, do the top to toe check, witness the birth etc? Wont that be a nightmare paperwork-wise?

Ok so don't know why you posted then since you seem to know you're right!

*It amazes me that in other countries women are desperate for medical care during pregnancy and birth, yet here some women see it as some kind of melodramatic interference in their chance to display their prowess as an earth mother.

I wonder how many people would free birth if they had to sign a disclaimer saying an ambulance wouldn't come, no matter how bad it got...*

To be fair, I don’t think the OP’s friend’s view is a widely held one. I’ve never met anyone in real life who would contemplate a freebirth for one second. Plenty of people who contemplated and had home births, but that’s altogether a different kettle of fish.

If I made that choice -I would be dead. I had an heart attack with my first -I had eclampsia. An emergency c section. She needs a wise up. Every 11 seconds a mother or baby dies -and this is WITH healthcare.

My friend was "Mrs Earth Mother" she frowned at me for having a c section. Her beautiful home birth was attended by a midwife and all went well. With baby number 2 -he and her nearly died -and it's only due to the midwife that she and he didn't.

She needs to talk to other parents. However my worry is that she is being put under pressure by him to have only him there. IS this really her choice or him pressuring her.

I think if you value the friendship, explain to her that you will do your very best to support her decision, but clearly due to your own experiences its a very unnerving situation to consider for both your friend and her baby and will need to educate yourself in freebirthing in order to support her. Ask her for the material/web links to things she has researched so you can learn.

It would be interesting to hear her DH's thoughts on delivering his child with no medical background or support whatsoever. He could have both his wife and his childs lives in his hands.

I doubt there is any point trying to convince her out of it, and I doubt she will actually freebirth her baby. If the labour pains are bad she'll be in that car quicker than you leak pee when you sneeze.

She doesn't even realise that being inside a small bath will be a hideous place to give birth. Wait till she's 7 months and see if she can even get in it . . .

I was fortunate, I hypnobirthed my way through labour at home, but the pain eventually became so intense I felt we should go to hospital, I was 9cm and baby came within the hour. As a first time mum the midwife support was amazing, they coached me through the last bit so I avoided pain relief.

Support her if you value the friendship, as she is likely going to need a good friend.

(I can't see anywhere about her reasons for wanting this, she does need to explain this to you so you can understand her thought process and 'get on board')

Completely agree, I was low risk until 6 days before my due date. Went from 0 to 100 out of nowhere. I know it's her body and she can do what she wants but it's a child so she needs to be made aware that she's putting another life at risk. I couldn't be friends with someone so careless so I wouldn't grovel or apologise.

I was once told 1 in 5 women have emergency Caesarians . That doesn't include other emergencies like needing to use forceps. History tells us how dangerous child birth can be without modern day medical care. I hope her midwife talks her out of it. Not going to her appointments is also alarming.

I wonder how many people would free birth if they had to sign a disclaimer saying an ambulance wouldn't come, no matter how bad it got...

Yeah....easy to be Earth Mother when you know Mother NHS is just around the corner with her army of trained professionals ready to save your childs life from your narcissistic fuck up. Not so much if you have to face being really truly on your own as many women throughout the world have to do.

Me and my baby girl would have both died if we had not been in a hospital. There were a lot of complications and I eventually had to go for an emergency C-section. I never really got over it, I definitely had some form of PTSD afterwards but I can't even begin to imagine what would have happened if I had been at home. It would have been catastrophic.

She needs to stop thinking about herself and think about her baby.

While it's not for everyone freebirthing is growing and is perfectly legal.

I think you'll just have to bite your tongue on this one, it's okay not to agree but disagreeing is going to push her further in to a freebirth.

The bigger question is why is there a growing group of women in this country who believe the only option for them is a free birth? Usually it's due to a lack of trust with midwives and medical professionals and feeling bullied and coerced.
While it's not something I agree with, I'm on a homebirth group with an awful lot of women who honestly feel like they have no autonomy over their body during pregnancy/birth unless they do this. They aren't stupid women either, they are well read and fully understand exactly what they're risking.

I would try to contact the midwifery team or social services to express my concern. If she is being treated for MH conditions they will be able to intervene, and if not they may be able to talk some sense into her. If sound if mind it is ultimately her decision - if she wants to kill or disable her unborn baby there isn’t a lot you can do about it. Baby’s rights only kick in once they are born.

I'd feel the same as you. My son wouldn't be here if I wasn't in hospital.

I’d ask her one question.

If something went wrong and her baby was stillborn or badly disabled because medical intervention wasn’t available or she didn’t realise it was necessary, would she ever forgive herself?

She’s a dick.
I had an easy delivery, arrived at hospital already 9cm, no pain relief.
I have no idea how that would have gone on my own. Would I have panicked without the midwife’s reassuring presence. She didn’t seem to do a lot - but I know she was closely monitoring me the whole time I was getting on with it. When I said, “I feel like I’d like to push” she called out from across the room (getting her apron on, I think) “go with how you feel my love” and gave me so much confidence. I’m not sure, but I think she might have pushed the last bit of my cervix back (sorry, that’s not a medical description) as baby started off back to back and I think that not uncommon for that.
So... trying to make the point that even those births that are very simple, might be so because the midwife is there.

It’s one thing to want to free birth (and I think it’s reckless and irresponsible) because you have done romanticised idea, but I just know she’s a dick because - why wouldn’t you keep your appointments?

I’d be happy to let the friendship go. You wouldn’t want to be friends with someone who smacks their baby... I see this as abusive too. Deliberately removing specialist care at a time when it’s highly common to need it.

Your friend is being negligent. Don't apologize. She needs to hear how dangerous and stupid this approach is. You are advocating for her unborn child.

My friend died from a heart attack following a PPH in hosptial. She was surrounded by medical staff and still died. 2 children are living without a mum

Your friend is making a very foolish decision.

Is this the latest ‘fad’ .So glad when I had mine years ago you went to hospital and just got on with it.Didn’t know anyone who got what they asked for- think a birthing plan came in when I had my 3rd child.Seems to be so much drama over having a baby- I agree totally with you- why take a risk.You gave your opinion and if she doesn’t want to talk to you because of her ‘free birth’ idea -then so be it.I’m not sure that the midwife would be on board with it either.

@KaitK

My husband fully intends to catch our baby. Midwives are completely aware and happy to be hands off. They won't enter the room unless we ask them to.
Would that make what we plan to do illegal?

@KaitK. Sorry, yes, I was referring to the woman having an unassisted birth.
I suppose though if only she and her dp are present it will be hard to prove whether or not he delivered the baby. Lots of men say they delivered babies at home and I think we all know they just caught them and wrapped them up.
Hopefully this lady will decide to have a midwife present.

If the labour pains are bad she'll be in that car quicker than you leak pee when you sneeze.

Beautifully put, if a bit closer to home than I am happy with :o:o