Freebirth. Fallen out with my friend. *title edited by MNHQ*

[whateveryouneed]

Friend is 3 months pregnant. We've been friends for around 5 years. Saw her today for the first time in 8 or so weeks. She was asking me about my pregnancy and son's birth. I was honest with her and told her how it went (she already knew a fair bit but not finer details). She said it scared her a bit hearing about my son being born blue and floppy, completely flatlined. He had to be intubated and resuscitated (he's 100% fine and healthy now).

The reason it scared her is because she's planning a freebirth. She wants to give birth in her bathtub at home (rural, about 18 miles from the nearest town, further from nearest hospital). She wants no medical assistance. Just her and her husband.

I told her (fairly firmly) that I think she needs to rethink that idea and that it could be really dangerous. She thinks that because she's not high risk (at the moment), that the chances of something going wrong are minimal. She thinks that if baby is head down that she will be fine.

AIBU to be really scared for her if she goes through with this? She's just told me she can't be friends with me throughout her pregnancy if I can't support her choice.

Not sure what to say or think...

I don't understand why anybody is considering being 'supportive' of this. Planning an unassisted delivery in the UK is illegal.

Hiring a private midwife to sit by as you birth in a lake or stream is an option (for anybody who can cough up).

Well you gave her your birth story, hopefully it won't happen to her but she needs to know the risks to make an informed choice.
I had two home water births and would really recommend it but i did have two midwives present , I got more attention than i did during hospital births! I also live rurally and about 30 min drive from hospital. personally I wouldnt want to give birth without a midwife present, obviously in some countries or in some circumstances women do give birth without a midwife but it's a lot of responsibility on her presumably inexperienced DH, tbh they sound a bit naive. You've said your piece and if shes a good friend you should be able to agree to differ.
Im sure her midwife will also be advising her and
when labour starts she might be racing to hospital for the gas and air!

@Nartl0ngNow oh yes those wonderful times when mothers and babies regularly died during childbirth. Even then a skilled woman would have been assisting them, not their clueless partner.

@TheVanguardSix

See how she feels when the reality of pushing out a watermelon hits her. It’s easy to play Earth Mother at 12 weeks with your very first. I am certain her fantasy bubble will burst.

Yeah I was going to say this 😁.

I started contractions on my own (single parent) and initially was happy enough just to give birth there and then. Only the contractions were sooo painful I realised I was being a dick and phoned the ambulance.

I couldn’t imagine anything worse than having a bloke standing by giving me encouraging platitudes. It also took 2 days from start to finish. That’s a lot of time to not know what you are doing.

She lives rurally more than 18 miles from the nearest hospital.

How long does she think an ambulance would take to get to her and then get her to hospital in the event of an emergency?

Because it won't be quick.

Sounds like your friendship is on pause for now. She doesn't want to hear what you've got to say because it doesn't feed into the narratives she wants to focus on.

My baby would have been at risk if I'd done this. Textbook pregnancy, healthy, young, calm, low risk, no issues at all, waters went on due date and labour started. Got to 3cm without even flinching. No sign of anything amiss at the surface so to speak. Got in labour ward and baby's heart rate was found to be dipping with every contraction. All I wanted to do was mobilise but couldnt because I had to be continuously monitored, I was so annoyed because it wasn't what I wanted but I put my baby first. It's only thanks to the skill of the team looking after me that baby was delivered safely. He might have been ok if I'd have free birthed, equally there's a good chance he may have been harmed. We'll never know.

Fully am on board with homebirths though but I'd want a professional there to at least make intermittent checks on me and baby.

I also think she's putting a hell of a lot of responsibility on her partner.

Also @Nartl0ngNow it's ridiculous to state that a positive mindset can lead to a positive outcome. No amount of positivity is going to prevent a PPH, or a prolonged labour, or the majority of other complications for that matter. I find your statement a bit naive. Our generations before is faced incredibly high risk of death in childbirth. Higher than 1 in 10.

I ended up in theatre for both of my deliveries.. First was head down well positioned but got stuck. Second was back to back, wedged in...

First didn't breath at first
Second was battered and bruised were he was literally dragged out to stop his distress and dropping heart rate

Without the many professionals both could have died and god knows what would have happened to me... I refused to give birth at a birthing centre and I'm so glad I chose going to hospital as we would of been emergency transfers if I hadn't

Also @Nartl0ngNow it's ridiculous to state that a positive mindset can lead to a positive outcome. No amount of positivity is going to prevent a PPH, or a prolonged labour, or the majority of other complications for that matter. I find your statement a bit naive. Our generations before is faced incredibly high risk of death in childbirth. Higher than 1 in 10.

Your friend is risking her and her baby. Her choice,

I'd wish her well and stay friends if you want to, but she can't force you to agree with her any more than you can force her to have assistance at her birth.

I agree with some previous comments....she is only 3 months pregnant so I think she may be influenced by further research, talking it through with professionals etc. I think you were heavy handed for someone still early one pregnancy and at 3 months I would be supportive by encouraging her talking it through with a professional not critical and telling her off.

Quick enough

Hi there, @whateveryouneed - just bobbing on here to say that we saw that you wanted us to edit the title and we've now done that for you. Hope that helps.

[quote whateveryouneed]@Nartl0ngNow you sound like my friend...[/quote]
May I suggest you get her a copy of "Eve" by Petrina Brown. It tells the truth about the "Thousands of generations of women" and what they actually went through.

It doesnt hold back but is fascinating and moving too.

www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01K3HLVDE/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1&tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Thank you @LouMumsnet x

I was low risk and perfectly healthy during my last and third pregnancy, the pregnancy was text book and uneventful and my labour was fine . . until it wasn’t.

That ended in an emergency c-section because I had an umbilical coed prolapse and he stopped breathing completely.

Birth rarely goes to plan and first labours are notoriously unpredictable, why can’t she have a minimally assisted home birth? At least compromise and have a health professional there if only to check heartbeat and dilation every so often. If they explain what they want to a midwife she will respect it and do her best to aid them in achieving a birth they want safely.

I agree with you OP. I had a very ‘straightforward’ labour, which still resulted in DS being born with the cord around his neck and needing help to start breathing. I then lost a lot of blood- luckily they managed to stop it in the delivery room, but I was close to needing surgery. DS then ended up in SCBU with suspected sepsis, which was spotted by a midwife on the wards (I would’ve been clueless about the ‘red flags’ if alone at home with him).

Thank goodness we were in a hospital with trained staff, who knew the warning signs of all the above, and intervened quickly and effectively.

@KaitK actually it’s not illegal. I checked earlier and apparently a woman has autonomy over her body and her unborn baby has no legal rights.

People saying "I/my baby would be dead if I'd done this" can rarely conclude that for sure, as things may have gone differently if they hadn't been in hospital in the first place. Many birth complications are iatrogenic.
I can, DS was born without a right diaphragm and consequently his bowels were in his lung cavity, and then after birth, his liver followed suit. He came out blue and not breathing, resus didn't work, fulll ventilation did. In the VERY thin chance an ambulance could have got to us and ressued hi, he would have been starved of o2 entirely for that time

And people on MN say I am ridiculous for believing some people put their birth experience before the safety of their child 🙄

It amazes me that in other countries women are desperate for medical care during pregnancy and birth, yet here some women see it as some kind of melodramatic interference in their chance to display their prowess as an earth mother.

I wonder how many people would free birth if they had to sign a disclaimer saying an ambulance wouldn't come, no matter how bad it got...

It’s entirely up to her. I think she’s an idiot and I hope very much that all goes well so that she can be smug and happy with her decision afterwards.

I’ve had four babies. All of them in hospital. The first three would have all died without medical intervention. My third baby did still die neonatally and I have an incredible amount of guilt about that, but at least everything medically possible was done. My fourth baby was born by an elective section so I have no idea how his labour would have gone otherwise if I’d been alone with DH at home.

What people need to realise is that one if not the most dangerous day of your life is usually the day you are born. Labour is as much about the safety of the baby as the mother.

I'm not saying I disagree with you but never TELL (sorry, can't see how to do bold) someone to rethink an idea they've had. Especially when pregnant, it's really infuriating because it's not one else's choice. I was so sick of people giving me advice in a way that they're actually telling you not suggesting. But also, she's a bit mad!

I'm so sorry for your loss @SunbathingDragon

Sounds totally insane...why would anyone jeopardise the safety of their unborn child and also the numerous problems mum could encounter..your friends a twat

I think she is being naive, very cavalier and taking a risk with hers and her babys lives. Does that mean no antenatal care either? I cannot believe her husband has agreed to that. Is it legal to give birth with no medical assistance? Who is looking out for the baby?