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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Freebirth. Fallen out with my friend. *title edited by MNHQ*

763 replies

whateveryouneed · 06/07/2020 21:23

Friend is 3 months pregnant. We've been friends for around 5 years. Saw her today for the first time in 8 or so weeks. She was asking me about my pregnancy and son's birth. I was honest with her and told her how it went (she already knew a fair bit but not finer details). She said it scared her a bit hearing about my son being born blue and floppy, completely flatlined. He had to be intubated and resuscitated (he's 100% fine and healthy now).

The reason it scared her is because she's planning a freebirth. She wants to give birth in her bathtub at home (rural, about 18 miles from the nearest town, further from nearest hospital). She wants no medical assistance. Just her and her husband.

I told her (fairly firmly) that I think she needs to rethink that idea and that it could be really dangerous. She thinks that because she's not high risk (at the moment), that the chances of something going wrong are minimal. She thinks that if baby is head down that she will be fine.

AIBU to be really scared for her if she goes through with this? She's just told me she can't be friends with me throughout her pregnancy if I can't support her choice.

Not sure what to say or think...

OP posts:
MsPasspartout · 08/07/2020 11:48

I wouldn’t feel able to support a friend in this choice.

I know several women who’ve had accidental free births with good outcomes - the sort of birth where they’ve intended to have a hospital birth, but labour’s been much faster than anticipated - but I think it’s really, really risky to actively plan to have a birth unattended by medical personnel.

One of my DC was born by EMCS after monitoring of his heart rate during labour showed he was in distress. His heart rate had dropped lower than my resting heart rate. Turned out that he was in distress because the umbilical cord was wrapped around his neck and starting to strangle him. I was about 2-3 cm dilated when his low heart rate was picked up, so it’s very likely that he’d have ended up either brain damaged or dead if we’d continued with a vaginal birth. No amount of positive thinking would have solved that problem.

It’s not a situation I’d have liked to face in a home birth, even if my DH had the equipment and medical training to detect the fact that the baby was in danger. The length of time between the midwife seeing DC’s low heart rate and him being born by EMCS was less than the length of time it takes to drive from our home to the hospital when there’s no traffic.

And it’s also risky to plan to avoid midwife appointments after 20 weeks. One of my DC was induced because he’d stopped growing and the doctors were worried about the risk of him being stillborn if they did nothing, the growth problem wasn’t noticeable at the 20 week scan.

But I suppose all you can do is to reply saying something like, given the way your birth went, you don’t feel you can support this decision, but that you hope all goes smoothly.

Wolfgirrl · 08/07/2020 12:32

@namechanging2020

Could you not explain the situation and ask for a slightly earlier induction, like 39 weeks+ ?

Wolfgirrl · 08/07/2020 12:47

I'm going to get absolutely slaughtered for this but for those who say they're 'scared of hospitals' and find the thought of a risky free birth better - I don't believe you. And if this is the case, you need to get over it.

If you were in a serious car crash tomorrow, you would call an ambulance. If you blacked out and had a seizure, you would call an ambulance. I don't know anyone that has not called an ambulance during a medical emergency.

It only seems to be childbirth where suddenly all these people are so reluctant to go to hospital. I think they're trying to justify to themselves choosing a riskier option for their own personal glory.

And unless OP's friend is in the minority of first time mums that have a very straightforward labour with no tearing, no hemorrhaging and the baby does not need any medical treatment (even for jaundice, temperature etc), she will have to either ring an ambulance or wait for one or both of them to get sicker and sicker.

My money is on the ambulance which she will then expect to spend time remedying the disaster that she has created.

Yes I know how harsh that sounds, but the baby should not have to suffer because of its mum's idiocy.

timeisnotaline · 08/07/2020 12:47

It’s just DUMB. Have a stroke - go to hospital. Break a leg- go to hospital. Have a heart attack - go to hospital. Have high fever for days - go to hospital. Have a baby, statistically one of the most dangerous moments in a woman or baby’s life, and noooo we must avoid not only hospitals but anyone remotely medically qualified at all costs. You hope it’s not actually at all costs because she is risking not just her own life but the baby’s. I couldn’t support a friend in this.

NameChange30 · 08/07/2020 12:50

wolfgirrl
You don't respect women. You don't believe them. You don't trust their own accounts of their own experiences. You don't believe that women can have PTSD due to traumatic hospital births and that this can make them more afraid of hospitals than free births.
You're either stupid or nasty or both.

Wolfgirrl · 08/07/2020 12:55

@NameChange30 no I am just sick of children suffering from their parents shitty decisions, whether that is smoking in pregnancy, making them live with an abusing partner or choosing a risky birth for no good reason.

If OP's friend was choosing not to have her appendix out, I would say her body her choice.

But she is dicing with her babys health to impress some idiots on stupid hippy websites

CarlottaValdez · 08/07/2020 13:00

As others have said I think the thing with a free birth is that it’s not at all traditional. You’d have had your mother probably or the local wise woman or whatever. Someone with a clue!

I think home births are fab but I can’t see any advantage to not having some sort of experienced person there. For me that was a fantastic NHS midwife.

CarlottaValdez · 08/07/2020 13:02

I am just sick of children suffering from their parents shitty decisions, whether that is smoking in pregnancy, making them live with an abusing partner or choosing a risky birth for no good reason

What about having children with a man in his 40s? Would that increased risk to the child be ok?

BabbleBee · 08/07/2020 13:04

I could have free birthed my 4th child, I didn’t consider it and wouldn’t have… but I did deliver her myself, in water (best pain relief for me), completely calm and controlled. It was a lovely experience.

Of course there’s more to it than that! Previous deliveries had been fast, so had a booked home birth but once I was in established labour nothing much was happening, the home birth midwives were with another lady so I happily went in to be assessed. Baby was back to back, same as my first, so I decided to stay on delivery suite.

My midwife was fabulous, she facilitated the calm birth and the outcome was perfect. However, it could have been different (my first OP baby was ventouse) and on the balance of risk I felt safer there.

My (long winded) point is that calm, hands off birthing can happen even in a consultant led hospital environment. The risk of planned free birth - which is incredibly different to a BBA for many reason - just isn’t worth taking in my opinion.

puzzledpiece · 08/07/2020 13:06

I'd put money on this idiotic 'friend' also being an anti vaxxer

namechanging2020 · 08/07/2020 13:07

@Wolfgirl - no, I would never have an induction unless there was a medical reason. My NHS trust not fancying doing homebirths right now isn't a good enough reason for me to put my baby and my body through the risks of an induction when I have precipitous births. They are many risks from inducing women who have precipitous labours and as I have had several easy homebirths already seems foolish to put us though that.

Wolfgirrl · 08/07/2020 13:07

@CarlottaValdez I dont see any life and death risks associated with babies whose parents are in their 40s?

Wolfgirrl · 08/07/2020 13:08

@namechanging2020

Lordy. There are cases of women having 3 easy labours then a disastrous one even in hospital. But good luck I guess.

namechanging2020 · 08/07/2020 13:13

You are statistical more likely to have a disastrous birth in hospital after an unnecessary induction then having a home birth so maybe save your good luck for someone else :-). Induction has a time and a place and so does hospital births, but neither are for me!

Wolfgirrl · 08/07/2020 13:13

@BabbleBee sounds like a lovely birth, and good for you for not pursuing a home birth at any cost.

You make my point perfectly - you need to balance what you want vs what is best for the baby.

Wolfgirrl · 08/07/2020 13:14

@namechanging2020

Because women with risk factors are most likely to give birth in hospital, and low risk women at home. It skews the stats.

I dont see how being at home would be better in a case of shoulder dystonia or placental abruption?

LaurieMarlow · 08/07/2020 13:15

But she is dicing with her babys health to impress some idiots on stupid hippy websites

Harsh as it sounds, I mostly agree with this. I can’t see what else explains her actions.

If I had a mortal fear of hospitals I’d be planning a homebirth and seeking counselling to prepare for the eventuality if it happened.

Would these same people be refusing to go to hospital if they got run over?

Shmithecat2 · 08/07/2020 13:16

She's a self indulgent prat and I honestly couldn't be friends with someone like that. Maybe suggest a lotus birth as well and leave her to it.

namechanging2020 · 08/07/2020 13:18

Those are extremely low risk things. And both are things my midwife and I have discussed and have plans for. The risk of placental abruption is actually one of the reason women who have preciptious births should avoid an induction. Not being rude but I am not sure why you think you know what it best for us when I have discussed with medical professionals. My mifwife has been a midwide for 30 years. Our local trust has been in the news recently for unexplained newborn deaths so hospital isn't this magic place where all is amazing.

tipsyandtim · 08/07/2020 13:18

@Wolfgirrl But in the PPs situation with her history a homebirth with a skilled midwife is probably safer and less risky for the baby then undergoing an unnecessary induction in hospital.

Wolfgirrl · 08/07/2020 13:25

My apologies @namechanging2020 I thought you meant you were planning a free birth 😬

Wolfgirrl · 08/07/2020 13:25

Didnt the Yorkshire shepherdess have a free birth or am I imagining things?

Shmithecat2 · 08/07/2020 13:31

@Wolfgirrl Yes, but not necessarily planned, and a few births needed urgent hospital attention afterwards

NameChange30 · 08/07/2020 13:38

Shoulder dystocia can happen when a woman is forced to lie on her back on a hospital bed.

Might not have happened if the woman had been allowed to labour in her preferred position which was anything BUT on her back on the hospital bed.

Just one example of why birth in hospital with a midwife not respecting the woman's wishes can actually lead to worse outcomes.

Shoulder dystocia could still happen in any scenario including at a home birth, midwives are trained to deal with it but there is a small risk that further intervention in hospital is needed.

Interventions can create complications that require more interventions, that's the cascade of intervention.

disorganisedsecretsquirrel · 08/07/2020 13:44

I would say to your friend that she needs to look round some of the thousands of old grave yards in this country and just have a count up of some of the hundreds of graves of women and babies who 'died in childbirth' before 1947. (The availability of penicillin and the NHS) and then look at how few after that date.

That was the result of 'free birth' when there was no choice.

Beyond idiotic with her own life and her childs.