Is this Midwife out of line?

[SistineScreamer]

Curious as to what others would think. My daughter just had her first DC yesterday. She had an elective section and is still in hospital. My daughter is young, she’s 24, Not married (and has no intention to) but been with her DP since they were 16. She’s had some MH issues, stemmed from ex husband of mine. This is all noted in her file and is a manageable, she’s had to come off her medication during the pregnancy because of risks to the baby but she was more than willing to do this. She’s in a private room and not on a ward. All this information is important as I assume this is why she was treated the way she was.

She rang me 30 minutes ago in tears. Telling me one of the midwives assigned to her has been horrible to her. We’ll call her Midwife A.

All this is what she says happened - First, DD had baby in a onsie and bib, midwife A came in and commented that the bib was too big for baby, took baby out of DD’s arms and removed the bib. Even if the bib was too big why completely undermine her like that? Next, DD brought wipes for her face, body etc they were baby brand water wipes as her skin is overly sensitive to anything else. Midwife proceeded to lecture DD that these were wrong and cotton buds must be used with water instead, proceeded to bin wipes then leave the room.

Half an hour later Midwife A came back in to ask DD about her feeding choices. DD was sexually assaulted and does not feel comfortable breastfeeding, her choice. Midwife proceeded to give her the breast is best talk, asking why she wouldn’t consider breastfeeding, basically making her feel like shit for picking formula. DD mentioned she’d purchased a perfect prep machine for the formula (you know the ones that give the perfect shot of hot water at night so you don’t have to faff about with the kettle?) this woman nodded, left the room and came back 15 minutes later with a print out of the perfect prep machine....asking DD to confirm if this was what she was talking about. Nodding and tutting. What the fuck? Even if she wanted to know what DD was talking about, why print it out and bring it to her? Why not look it up herself?

Next issue came with the drip that was in DD’s hand, it was ripping the skin, physically pulling up the skin. She asked Midwife A if she could take it out or change it, to be told no nothing could be done. She’d just have to suck it up. An hour after she was told this another midwife came in, Midwife B, she begged midwife B to take it out and showed her what it was doing to her hand. Midwife B promptly took it out stating that there was no problem. Midwife A came back for her checks, asked DD what happened to the drop. DD explained that midwife B took it out, midwife A mumbled something about how that couldn’t be right and she’d have to check that ‘story’ right away.

DD is still vulnerable after birth, can’t move yet because of the catheter and has to be changed by this woman who she feels uncomfortable with and intimidated by. This woman has to handle her naked, change her sheets and I feel from what she’s saying it’s making her MH worse. She says she feels like Midwife A is talking about her with the other midwife (not B) on duty who she seems friendly with, shared looks, little smirks, off comments.

The looks and such could be DD’s dislike for this midwife raring up. But the rest, is this normal! I feel like she’s over stepped the mark and made my child feel low because of her age and choices. Should we ignore this?

OP can you discuss with your DD about whether you stay at the hospital with your DD tonight and send her DP home. A shy DP is maybe going to assert himself on her behalf. It sounds like having someone assertive there would be very sensible. If her DP wishes to stay he absolutely needs to stand up and assert himself on your DDs behalf if anyone tried to talk about breastfeeding etc again so that it’s not all laying on your DDs shoulders to handle this situation

Op you sound like a fantastic mum and I am sure your daughter will be too

Good luck OP. Everything you have done so far has been just right. You are an excellent advocate, Mum and Grandmum. Your daughter is also a great Mum already in the face of such adversity. I hope going forward things will be much improved. At least you have an apology and acknowledgement from the ward sister that is a good start.

Cross post.

I am so very glad - good for you, OP! I hope things get better from now on.

I don’t know a single mother who bottle fed who didn’t get breastfeeding benefits shoved down her throat repeatedly and feel very pressurised by midwives particularly in hospital. It is disgusting but it’s not to do with her age

I think overall YABU op.

You sound very indignant about relatively minor incidents (shaking her head and tutting for instance - I mean, so? Let her tut).

And you’re massively in defence/attack mode - ‘ I feel A was going down the safeguarding route, in that case I’m more than happy to go down the harassing a vulnerable woman route‘.

They’re MIDWIVES who are responsible for newborn babies - of COURSE they’ll be on the lookout for safeguarding concerns, as they should be.

It sounds like A could do with brushing up her bedside manner but imo you need to take a step back and let your adult dd deal with it - be there for support, reassure her - but having meetings with the ward sister etc I think is massively overstepping. Your dd’s not 12.

To be frank you sound rather high maintenance and like someone who has expectations of exceptional, bespoke 5* medical care when in reality midwives and hospital wards are overstretched, under resourced and probably doing their best.

You’d do far better to calm your dd down and be on her side, reassure her, boost her confidence in herself rather than jumping on the offensive and wanting blood from everyone who your dd perceives has wronged her.

Regarding those posts giving it "midwife probably really busy/run off her feet" etc

1 that's NO excuse for treating a patient badly, I've worked in some incredibly busy/stressful environments and NEVER treated a patient close to this!

2 if she's so damn busy how does she have the time to fart around printing off perfect prep stuff and being in the room with the dd banging on about bf??

@TERFWars, pipe down.

And be thankful you have never been in such a position as the OP’s daughter. Asking her mum to come and advocate for her WAS the mature and rational response.

Ah, Graphista, this is how she feels - that her MH will be used against her and this treatment isn't doing much to dissuade that notion. She was afraid to speak up and snapped, I have explained this. People like you and her or anyone really shouldn't have that fear, that they will be penalised for speaking out. I have tried to ignore most comments but don't understand how others take this as 'just advice' and that DD is just 'emotional'.

for you and your daughter OP.

I was treated in a similar way at 37.

I don't doubt your daughter's description of what happened in any way.

Thank goodness she has you with her now.

I definitely recommend getting her home as soon as it's safe to do so and then envelope her in TLC.

She is lucky to have a fantastic mum.

So relieved to hear you are staying. Midwife A will surely be going off shift for a while so hopefully you can calm DD down and all relax now it’s dealt with. Keep going with the emotional support for your DD. Sounds like getting her home soon is a good call too if she’s medically well enough. it sounds like her confidence in her parenting may have been a bit knocked so keep an eye on that and offer any support if needed

@TERFWars - but these 'minor incidents' add up, don't they?

I agree that if any of the things the OP describes in her first post had happened, we might chalk it up to the midwife being in a hurry/ having a rough day/ just bad luck.

But all of them? Really?

Complain immediately. I still regret not doing so after my midwife was vile to me during labour and after I'd just given birth. The lasting memory was of me lying on the trolley b/f my just born baby daughter whilst waiting to be wheeled from theatre to ward. She leaned over me and snatched my dressing gown over my daughter's face and said "cover yourself up, some people find it offensive you know" I later met another upset new mum who had received the same treatment.

There is no need to go in guns blazing, but this should be a wonderful special time for your DD. Don't let anyone spoil it.

@SistineScreamer good luck with the rest of your night and congratulations on your grandchild. I haven't read the other comments, just the OP 's posts and the mw is totally out of order.

Though your DD's DP is going to have to work on his assertiveness too, as i feel that this is not the only time he is going to need to advocate for his partner and child.

Obviously your DD doesn't feel comfortable and she's just given birth with her hormones all over the place, but to me the midwife sounded exactly like mine. I had no clue when DS was born but they were so helpful if you don't take it the wrong way! Bibs can be very dangerous and also, midwives like to encourage breastfeeding as it's very good for the baby and the mum actually and no one can guess anyone's background story on why they choose not to BF unless you tell them. They are there to encourage, help and educate with BF. Also the prep machines are a bit shady as there have been some issues with them not being the right temperature and some tubes causing mould etc.

Terf, I am in attack mode because she is attempting to hint at safeguarding issues that are not there. I won't let them steam roll her to cover this. My DD’s MH is being called into question because she isn’t confirming to this woman. The issues that are here are the ones she caused. I don’t expect 5* stars from the trust, far from it actually. But I expect human decency. She might be an adult but she needs an advocate at the moment. Perhaps you're happy to tell your adult children to deal with it - I am not. Mine is vulnerable and upset and backed into a corner.

She has not read my DD’s file, clearly doesn’t know about her MH or abuse history or doesn’t give a shit, yet kept insisting on BFing after DD tried to hint at personal reasons. That should be enough. Doesn’t take 5* stars to brush up on her patient’s files and history.

My issue wasn’t with her ...pointing things out (if you can call it that) you can call it advice, is she was snatching baby from DD and taking bib off - why not advise her instead? Taking her property and throwing it out? How exactly is that 5* treatment. DD mentioned eye rolling and tutting as passive aggressive, why is that acceptable or professional?

@SarahAndQuack - it’s the op’s tone that makes me think she is probably bu tbh.

The closest thing that springs to mind is when your child in school has a minor telling off from a teacher - and rather than doing the sensible thing and talking to and reassuring your child and moving on, there’s that one parent that goes marching in and picking the scenario apart to within an inch of its life, demanding xyz and for heads to roll.

Not that the ops dd deserves to be ‘told off’ by a MW - but this is what sprung to mind reading the ops complaints.

It sounds like A could do with brushing up her bedside manner but imo you need to take a step back and let your adult dd deal with it - be there for support, reassure her - but having meetings with the ward sister etc I think is massively overstepping. Your dd’s not 12.

You sound incredibly naive.

A lot of people with MH issues are able to navigate day to day life perfectly well and deal with their problems alone, however, in times of vulnerability and crisis they may need someone to step in and speak for them.

OP's DD needs that right now and shouldn't be discouraged from leaning on her support system for help.

Docus, can you explain why we are difficult and entitled for not wanting a vulnerable person targeted and treated like crap? I really need to see these other views as I wonder how one responds to their child being treated like shit without being difficult?

My girl has been through enough. She's fought to be here where she is today.

@Newbiehere123 - have you read this thread?

Again you are comparing an adult with MH issues in distress to a child.

Do you have any idea how offensive that is?

Thank goodness that she has you there to advocate for her and how awful that other vulnerable women won’t have someone in their corner fighting for them. It’s absolutely appalling what your daughter has been through here. The other thing is, if she wanted to use the wipes on the baby and if she doesn’t want to breastfeed both of those things ARE PERFECTLY OK! Her baby, her rules. It’s not like she was planning on wiping the baby’s bum with Flash kitchen wipes. I don’t know anyone who has persisted with the warm cotton wool past the first attempt when you realise it’s utterly ineffectual in the face of a terror poo!
I hope you all get home soon. Congratulations to you all!

TERF, my 'time' comes from being protective of my girl. I did not protect her as I should have with abusive ex, too blinded and naive myself at that age. The struggles she's had, her MH, the things I’ve watched I blame myself partly. I DO have a tone but I won’t apologise for if.

These issues are real and they're here. Her dp has witnessed it. I don't want 'heads rolling' for a minor school yard spat?😐

What I do want is a valid excuse for this woman's behaviour.

Op she's being rude to staff. If your daughter isn't more cooperative then they will involve the social.

I don’t know why you think social workers will get involved if a mother swears at a midwife 🤷‍♀️

I’m a social worker, and if I’d had the experience described by the OP, I’d have told the midwife to fuck off too.

Please tread lightly. My first degree was Social Policy and we studied a lot of Social Work modules. They can take babies for suspicion of intended harm not actual.

And nothing the OP has described would come even remotely close to threshold for this. Please stop scaremongering.