Is anyone else boycotting Tesco's for giving £80,000 to Mermaids?

[loveyouradvice]

Just that really... I was shocked, especially given all the news coverage there has been about the issues recently. I would have expected them to give it to an uncontroversial charity at the very least - and ideally one that most of their customers would like to support

What utter bullshit

Oooh, now you know that it's not.
If you leave the thread, you're accused of running away to bake a cake.
If you discuss, or answer points or questions, you're told you're "merailing."
If you post your opinion, and engage, and it's not the majority, everybody starts waffling about the weetabix they had for breakfast
It's utterly bizarre, and the poster saying about discussion with 8 yr olds has it bang on.

It's not ok to be told your identity must match other people's ideas of what Male and female are.
Isn't that why people transition though, because they want to match people's ideas of male and female? That's what Mermaids are doing. Children think they "feel" male or female because they see male and female stereotypes all around them. So instead of thinking that they're just girls who like racing cars or boys who like looking after dolls, they're told that in order to do these things they should outwardly look like the sex that matches them. Here are boys thinking they can't just have long hair and wear dresses, they have to alter their appearance and their hormones.

Exactly unihorn, it's a lot less damaging to a child to be told to wear a dress if they want than to be told to remove their genitals

I don’t agree with their decision but it’s theirs and that’s that really. It’s hard to boycott something if you need the services. It might be simple for some to switch but if we did that every time we didn’t agree with something we would run out of places to shop lol. I am impressed with those who do though.

@LemonadeAndDaisyChains

What utter bullshit

Oooh, now you know that it's not.
If you leave the thread, you're accused of running away to bake a cake.
If you discuss, or answer points or questions, you're told you're "merailing."
If you post your opinion, and engage, and it's not the majority, everybody starts waffling about the weetabix they had for breakfast
It's utterly bizarre, and the poster saying about discussion with 8 yr olds has it bang on.

I’m still baffled as to why you’re here if it’s all as you describe.

As an aside, why should the right for trans people to get help be up for discussion anyway?
I'm not trans, I don't know what it's like to be trans, why would I presume to think I know what's best for them?

Didn`t the Co-op donate to them a while back?

You won't be swayed from your bigotry, even in the face of science, changing public opinion Science says you can change your chromosomes now does it? Public opinion is not changing. You may be within the Twittersphere or the M25. For the rest of the world, which is a lot of people, we just look at this and shake our heads.

Unfortunately you'll never change some peoples minds that any person with a penis is evil and trying to invade their female space. I'm married to a man, who has a penis, and I have an adult son, who is a male and has a penis. Only males can have penises. I don't think all males are evil, but women do not have penises, we have vaginas and ovaries.

I’m still baffled as to why you’re here if it’s all as you describe

Somebody upthread said they felt increasingly uncomfortable around the amount of hate on here lately, whether it be racism, or transphobia (I'm paraphrasing as I can't find the exact quote) and that they felt that by staying silent it's condoning it, or encouraging it.
I feel the same.

There used to be a point when I'd never found a trans cause I didn't support.

But the modern conversation around transitioning does worry me. When a set of parents say, 'I think my toddler son might be trans because he likes playing with dolls' (and I have seen such threads- they get short shrift on MN, but not elsewhere), the LGBT community should be the first to recognise that trans rights is being exploited to squash gender nonconforming children back into their boxes.

There were, and in fact, still are, people who seriously think that it's reasonable to assume a toddler boys will grow up to be gay if they play with dolls, or handbags and that he will grow up to be straight if he plays with toy cars. These assumptions about what personality traits must accompany homosexuality are homophobic. There's nothing progressive about people saying, "ooh, I think he's trans" instead, even if they are nice and smiley and donate money to transgender support charities.

I don't think that makes me transphobic.

I cannot hope to understand why, but there are homophobic religious bigots who would rather have a daughter who was born a boy than have a gay son. I don't care what sex of consenting adult my children may grow up to prefer, but I sincerely hope none of them ever experiences a moment of gender dysphoria and I don't want anyone to make them feel like they're the wrong sex.

And yet, it's started. From six years old, my son came home telling me that other children had been telling him he must be a girl because he liked the colour pink and so on. These ideas come from home. They come from the parents who tell their sons they can't have pink things, who tell their sons that boys don't cry. So tell me, who is it who hates gender non-conforming people?

Is it supposed to be me?

If you're concerned about the ethical behaviour of where you shop, I would suggest you avoid ALL £billion enterprises tbh.

@LemonadeAndDaisyChains, the discussion here is about Mermaids and the 'support' they give still-developing children. Adults diagnosed with GD are a different matter. Those with GD obviously should be given support with their condition, as long as that 'help' isn't imposing on others of course.

Yes dear but HAVE YOU BEEN TO ONE?

No, of course not!

If I had a child who was distressed about gender I would give Mermaids a very wide swerve.

I would look for an organisation that provided space to explore any and all reasons for my child's distress including sexual orientation, ASD and possible sexual abuse.

I would look for an organisation that did not jump straight to medical and surgical 'solutions' for my child's mental distress.

I would avoid any organisation that pushed a 'trans or die' message because that would not be good for my child's mental health in the short term, or their physical and mental health in the long term.

I would avoid any organisation that showed a disregard for child safeguarding.

By the way, your posts come across as incredibly patronising and misogynist. Was that intentional?

Super - that definitely works for me grin

I'm sure it does as I doubt you'd be capable of holding an intellectual debate based on the comments you've made on here

the discussion here is about Mermaids and the 'support' they give still-developing children. Adults diagnosed with GD are a different matter.

OK, point taken.
Those with GD obviously should be given support with their condition, as long as that 'help' isn't imposing on others of course
This though - not sure what you mean there?

Again nobody has said a trans person doesn't deserve help , it's Mermaids "help" I've concerns with.

If a child believes they're in the wrong body I'm not sure what the answer is. I'm pretty sure though the answer isn't to endorse the removal of genitals, a life of medication and to never experience sexual pleasure.

What other medical or psychological has ever merited actions like these as help?

@LemonadeAndDaisyChains

As an aside, why should the right for trans people to get help be up for discussion anyway? I'm not trans, I don't know what it's like to be trans, why would I presume to think I know what's best for them?

I don’t believe the right for trans people to access help should be up for debate. I don’t think that’s what’s happening here. I would be behind any initiative to better fund treatment for transgender people, as the waiting lists are appalling. However where children are involved, of course people are entitled to scrutinise the nature of the help being offered.

Also people are entitled to object to Mermaids providing training to public bodies, which includes eg that regressive gender spectrum slide.

Ok lemonade, then if you don't know what is best for trans, then take it from someone whose gender identity doesn't match their sex, from someone who wanted to razor bale bits off their body as a child, mermaids isn't an organisation I would support

@LemonadeAndDaisyChains

I’m still baffled as to why you’re here if it’s all as you describe

Somebody upthread said they felt increasingly uncomfortable around the amount of hate on here lately, whether it be racism, or transphobia (I'm paraphrasing as I can't find the exact quote) and that they felt that by staying silent it's condoning it, or encouraging it.
I feel the same.

But you’re not confronting whatever it is that you say you’re seeing on here because you’re not able to quote a single transphobic post or example of hate speech.

@Unihorn

It's not ok to be told your identity must match other people's ideas of what Male and female are. Isn't that why people transition though, because they want to match people's ideas of male and female? That's what Mermaids are doing. Children think they "feel" male or female because they see male and female stereotypes all around them. So instead of thinking that they're just girls who like racing cars or boys who like looking after dolls, they're told that in order to do these things they should outwardly look like the sex that matches them. Here are boys thinking they can't just have long hair and wear dresses, they have to alter their appearance and their hormones.

Quite. I read through a bit of the transcript, linked upthread, and the jelly babies analogy seemed incredibly keen to define female as the barbie doll stereotype and male as the action man. According to that, we must almost all be gender fluid. I can't see how imposing such extreme definitions of gender does anything to reassure young people that it's OK to just be without having to put a gender label on it. Crikey, all female scientists and engineers must automatically be gender fluid! Or they're just female scientists and engineers.

This though - not sure what you mean there?

Those with gender dysphoria should be given the help they need with accepting their GD, and given support both medically and socially to understand that they have a condition, that doesn't mean they should suffer abuse or estrangement for it. There should be more help looking into why they have GD (as I said, there is autistic and gay erasure going on beneath the surface, along with other issues that may be manifesting themselves as GD) rather than going down the routes of Self ID and such. Especially when transitioning can lead to a lifetime of harmful drugs and surgery.

By 'imposing', I mean what I said above. That those with GD should be accepted as who they are, rather than trying to change the very basics of science and anatomy, along with issues such as female sociological issues - womens sports for example.

And the barbie doll vs action man thing feeds right into the black and white thinking of many autistic individuals. It's quite crass.

As an aside, why should the right for trans people to get help be up for discussion anyway?
I'm not trans, I don't know what it's like to be trans, why would I presume to think I know what's best for them?

I will, at this point, refer back to Autism Speaks. Should their stance just be accepted because those who do not have autism presume that "curing" those with autism isn't best for them?

because you’re not able to quote a single transphobic post or example of hate speech

Yes, I am, and yes I could.
Why are you STILL not understanding that people are saying that it's not that they can't point it out, but that there's no point as people won't see it even if it's pointed out?