Is anyone else boycotting Tesco's for giving £80,000 to Mermaids?

[loveyouradvice]

Just that really... I was shocked, especially given all the news coverage there has been about the issues recently. I would have expected them to give it to an uncontroversial charity at the very least - and ideally one that most of their customers would like to support

And quite successfully derailing this thread about how problematic Mermaids, and the approaches they favour, are

That's true, I'll stop engaging otherwise 400 posts later we'll still be 'discussing' whether MN is 'transphobic'.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Saying, ‘There is a very real and very serious issue with letting men into women’s spaces’ is not the same as saying all transgender male-bodied people want to assault women.

I've been on MN for years and literally never seen the latter said. It's a lie and it's being used to push an anti woman agenda.

Yes quite. I’ve been here for years and no one has ever said that.

Blatant lies. Repeated by people who are too stupid to understand and apply logic, too misguidedly ‘nice’ where it isn’t warranted, too blinded by cultic ideology and magical thinking, or those who have a vested interest in deliberate misinformation for nefarious purposes. Well there might be other reasons too, but those are the ones that come to mind right now.

It IS said repeatedly on the FWR board that trans women are males with fetishes and just trying to access women's spaces.

It IS said repeatedly on the FWR board that some transwomen and predatory males misusing the proposed self-identification changes to the GRC are males with fetishes and may be trying to access women's spaces.

And it is. Repeatedly. It is a concern.

It has not been said (or if it has the post has not remained) that ALL transwomen are like this. And no one would say it if they were widely read and interacted with some of the transwomen on twitter who support female only spaces.

Sorry for my part in derailment @loveyouradvice

I’m leaving the discussion now to let it move back to its main focus.

@Ninkanink

Sorry for my part in derailment *@loveyouradvice*

I’m leaving the discussion now to let it move back to its main focus.

Nink I hope you stay. Your sensible and informed voice will be missed!

That's true, I'll stop engaging otherwise 400 posts later we'll still be 'discussing' whether MN is 'transphobic'. Yes. quite right. I will withdraw as well so the thread can continue as it is interesting to see the different opinions about the charity and how people perceive it.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3928204-Changes-to-NHS-gender-dysphoria-website-page-re-puberty-blockers

Links to here. The NHS quietly changed their advice on puberty blockers to be much more cautious.

twitter.com/BayswaterSG/status/1268227291970224131?s=20

There are many documented instances in FWR, should you care to look, of either predatory males gaining access to safe spaces for women or some trans individuals doing so, to scratch a fetish itch.

If NAMLT why don't we just abandon safe spaces altogether? If anyone can self ID and access them according to their gender expression, what is the point? Bloody hell, my DD 11 is already self conscious about her changing body would hate her dad or any male relative to see her naked. Why the fuck would she be comfortable with a strange man who has self ID his way into the gym changing rooms, seeing her like that?

I don't give a shit if it upsets someone for me to say this but if you think the hurt feelings of a biological man or boy trump the dignity of one single girl in this situation, then you have a problem.**

Saying, ‘There is a very real and very serious issue with letting men into women’s spaces’ is not the same as saying all transgender male-bodied people want to assault women.

Of course thats not the same. But I am referring to the many posts I've seen on feminist chat that say "all transwomen"

In case of doubt, Mermaids is fully in favour of puberty blockers, claims the NHS says they are "reversible" which is now untrue, following the change to NHS advice mentioned earlier, and has linked to people who can supply hormone treatments illegally without a prescription.

mermaidsuk.org.uk/glossary/

@Thinkingabout1t

Greyexpectations, can you genuinely not understand that when people speak of men claiming to be transgender in order to harass women in single-sex spaces -- they are not saying all transwomen do this? Or that it is the only reason men become trans?

It doesn't matter to me how many men do this. It matters that there are men doing this, successfully, and that they are then harming women in spaces where women should be safe. We know this from numerous court cases.

Of course I understand and if you bothered to read my comments you'd see that I am referring to posts on feminist chat that do say "all transwomen" can you really not see that people asked for examples and I gave them? Plenty of posters claim all transwomen want access to women's spaces for predatory reasons.

I am often reading FWR board and I have never seen anybody claiming ALL trans women are predatory men who just want to assault women. Not once.

Mermaids (as per previous link):

Blockers, hormone blockers or puberty blockers: a type of medication which temporarily stops the production of the natural hormones which progress puberty. They are considered by the NHS Gender Identity Development Service and a body of international research to be a physically reversible intervention: if the young person stops taking the blocker their body will begin developing as it would have done without medical intervention.

NHS website:

These hormone blockers (gonadotrophin-releasing hormone analogues) pause the physical changes of puberty, such as breast development or facial hair.
Little is known about the long-term side effects of hormone or puberty blockers in children with gender dysphoria.
Although the Gender Identity Development Service (GIDS) advises this is a physically reversible treatment if stopped, it is not known what the psychological effects may be.
It's also not known whether hormone blockers affect the development of the teenage brain or children's bones.

My bold.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment/

I tried to read through this thread but it has more holes than a sieve, so it's hard to try to get the gist of how the thread went.

To all those waffling on about it being more supportive to a teen to tell them, yes, you can be a woman, but you must remain dressed like a man - if how people dress doesn't matter, why should it matter if they dress like a woman?

As for 'mutilation', mercifully, a lot of tv stations etc. are covering transgenderism now, and the people I've seen are really happy to be transitioning. There are always exceptions to every rule, so if Feminism Chat women seem to have met such exceptions in person, then that would give cause to worry. But they haven't. Ever.

My guess is, and it's based on my own experience mainly is that most of you don't even know one single transgender individual.

Some of you must have been watching The Crying Game or Crocodile Dundee too much. Now that people are accepted for being transgender, it can only be a good thing right? Why why why why why do you want to delay progression? Years ago (and not too many years ago), gay people were considered abhorrent by religious zealots. Now that they're accepted, thankfully, we all know several gay people who are happily out and proud. You think they didn't exist in 1984? They did.

Please stop this hatred for transwomen on MN. It's spoiling the site for a lot of us.

Far from boycotting Tesco, I may well boycott MN if it continues to allow this backward corner of the internet to persist.

And women’s rights. Where do you stand on those?

Probably best to read a thread before commenting.

And what on earth does FWR stand for?

Do you really think the only way something can be transphobic is if an actual, literal slur was used?

Won’t derail the thread, but as this was addressed to me, I really think you’re reaching a bit here. There’s a middle ground between ‘tone’ and ‘actual slurs’. If ‘tone’ is all you’re referring to I don’t think your argument here is sound. As the thread’s gone on, you appear to have thoroughly misrepresented comments on FWR by stating that posters write that all trans women want to get into women’s spaces to commit assault. I’ve never seen that stated here - not surprisingly, as I doubt anybody even remotely thinks that.

So I don’t think your are arguing in good faith on this thread and I’ll leave it at that so the main topic can be discussed.

Feminism and Women's Rights. You know, those things that some people care about, I can't imagine why?

It's hard to read through a thread when every second post is deleted. I read through the first 100 posts (minus the 50 posts that were deleted) and I just said fuck this.

So I don’t think your are arguing in good faith on this thread and I’ll leave it at that so the main topic can be discussed.

Quite.

I thought this was called Feminism Chat.

@GoatCheeseTart

No, but the inference is exactly the same, whether the intention is there or not.

It's literally a handful of documented cases of self-ID being abused, but the objectors want to use that to exclude an entire group, while simultaneously ignoring the fact that there are countless thousands of instances of self-id'ing people using the same spaces without issue every single day of the week.

Whether you literally state that all transwomen are predatory or not, when you insist on using the actions of a tiny minority to exclude the entire group, you ARE inferring the group as a whole are the problem. It's exactly the same conflation that was made back when people used to argue that homosexual men couldn't be trusted around children because some men sexually abused boys.

As another poster so succinctly said, transwomen and self-ID are not the issue here, it's predatory men.

That wasn't a popular renaming. You clearly don't hang out on these threads much. Even the people who don't post there for reasons but are regulars tend to know it as FWR.

Why this so-called 'fear' of transwomen using 'women's spaces'. How do you all sit together at work? Is it the women to the left of the office and men to the right?