Is anyone else boycotting Tesco's for giving £80,000 to Mermaids?

[loveyouradvice]

Just that really... I was shocked, especially given all the news coverage there has been about the issues recently. I would have expected them to give it to an uncontroversial charity at the very least - and ideally one that most of their customers would like to support

@CoteDAzur

"If you would go up to a transwoman and tell them "I refuse to awkwnowledge you as a woman because of the dictionary" that is incredibly offensive."

First of all, nobody would do that.

Second, my comment was about the words people use on MN in these discussions, as in just now when someone suggested that it was offensive to say a transwoman is male.

And it's a statement of fact. Transwomen are male, as per the definitions of both these words.

Oh I see. So you'd only be denying there presence in private so then its OK. Gotcha.

the court didn't say anything about banning Mermaids from having contact with anyone - and if people bothered to read independent sources rather than spreading misinformation that serves their agenda they would know this. In the court transcript Mermaids is mentioned once as an organisation the mother had approached for support www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2016/2430.html.

At no point did the judge state that Mermaids was 'banned' nor did he criticise the charity at all. In fact an IPSO ruling shows that the case was misrepresented and the Times published a correction www.ipso.co.uk/rulings-and-resolution-statements/ruling/?id=18904-17.

As an aside no-one on here seemed to be against the use of puberty blockers when they were just being used to treat precocious puberty - of which there is scientific evidence going back 30+ years - it seems that transphobes are quite willing to throw these children under the bus to push their bigotry.

Oh I see. So you'd only be denying there presence in private so then its OK. Gotcha.

Is this a thoughtcrime? Call the police!

[quote Ereshkigalangcleg]Article worth reading from the GC side, succinctly and accessibly laying out some of the problems with Mermaids. Plenty of links to sources:

www.spiked-online.com/2020/07/03/mermaids-leading-children-up-the-trans-path/[/quote]
Excellent article.

SG is so fortunate to have access to CEOs up and down the country. She uses her position to influence others and to lobby. Her reach extends to educators, local authorities and charities such as NSPCC.

Any group with such a monopoly and a MO that concerns children needs to be scrutinised.

@Ninkanink

Well the constant idea that all transwomen are secretly men trying to get into women's spaces to sexually assault them, that is trotted out a lot on the feminist board.

Blatant lie. You should be ashamed of yourself.

I’ll address the other comments later but that one could not be ignored.

And there it is! Please explain how its a lie? I have seen the above mentioned countless times on feminist chat. I get you can't handle being wrong but seriously that response is so immature. This is why people don't post proof on here

As an aside no-one on here seemed to be against the use of puberty blockers when they were just being used to treat precocious puberty - of which there is scientific evidence going back 30+ years - it seems that transphobes are quite willing to throw these children under the bus to push their bigotry.

It seems to be a concern shared by lots of whistle blowers at the Tavistock and Portman Trust, though?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51806962

For those that don't seem to understand, yes there are some males using transgender as a way to gain access to women. But when the "some" turns into people saying "all" it becomes a generalisation.

No-one on here seemed to be against the use of puberty blockers when they were just being used to treat precocious puberty

Why would anyone oppose the use of a drug to treat a health condition? Precocious puberty can cause physical and emotional problems and stunt a child's growth.

Using a drug unnecessarily, to delay a healthy child's puberty, is more likely to cause physical and emotional problems. That's the difference.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-nhs-has-quietly-changed-its-trans-guidance-to-reflect-reality

It is not a blatant lie.
It IS said repeatedly on the FWR board that trans women are males with fetishes and just trying to access women's spaces.
Anyone with the ability to read and think for themselves can see for themselves.

And yes, that to Greys 11.45 post

www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment/

The NHS guidance states that the long term risks are not known.

Why would anyone oppose the use of a drug to treat a health condition? Precocious puberty can cause physical and emotional problems and stunt a child's growth.

Using a drug unnecessarily, to delay a healthy child's puberty, is more likely to cause physical and emotional problems. That's the difference.

This.

Another is that every transgendered person has mental health issues and needs urgent treatment instead of being able to identify as they like, this is also mentioned frequently on there.

Well that's quite a jump in conclusion to what is actually said. The point being made is that if there are other issues going on (CSE for example) then the act of transitioning is unlikely to solve the root cause of their issues. At the very least those individuals are owed a safe space to explore all their feelings.

SG is so fortunate to have access to CEOs up and down the country. She uses her position to influence others and to lobby. Her reach extends to educators, local authorities and charities such as NSPCC.

Any group with such a monopoly and a MO that concerns children needs to be scrutinised.

Quite. I don't trust people who say certain things aren't open to scrutiny.

Oh fgs I’m never going to see the sun today am I.

Saying, ‘There is a very real and very serious issue with letting men into women’s spaces’ is not the same as saying all transgender male-bodied people want to assault women.

I’m not going to engage with you further as if you really can’t see that, there’s regrettably no point at all in discussing it with you.

Having boundaries on issues of consent that are necessary to protect women and children is not -phobic, nor hateful. Having legitimate and valid objections to the potential erasure of women’s protections in law and/or society is not -phobic, nor hateful.

I’ll leave others to address the other points you mentioned, and I’ll make this my last comment to you. You really need to tighten up your thinking.

Greyexpectations, can you genuinely not understand that when people speak of men claiming to be transgender in order to harass women in single-sex spaces -- they are not saying all transwomen do this? Or that it is the only reason men become trans?

It doesn't matter to me how many men do this. It matters that there are men doing this, successfully, and that they are then harming women in spaces where women should be safe. We know this from numerous court cases.

"Oh I see. So you'd only be denying there presence in private so then its OK. Gotcha."

I don't deny transwomen's presence. They actually exist. I just wouldn't "go up to" them on the street and say "You're male, you know" because that would be hurtful, since they are obviously trying to appear female.

Just like I would not go up to an ugly personal on the street and say "You're ugly, you know".

I hope that helps you understand the difference.

@LemonadeAndDaisyChains

It is not a blatant lie. It IS said repeatedly on the FWR board that trans women are males with fetishes and just trying to access women's spaces. Anyone with the ability to read and think for themselves can see for themselves.

See my comment above.

Saying, ‘There is a very real and very serious issue with letting men into women’s spaces’ is not the same as saying all transgender male-bodied people want to assault women.

I've been on MN for years and literally never seen the latter said. It's a lie and it's being used to push an anti woman agenda.

Well the constant idea that all transwomen are secretly men trying to get into women's spaces to sexually assault them, that is trotted out a lot on the feminist board.

I have rarely seen an argument that says 'all transwomen' are secretly men trying to get into women's spaces. That must be you drawing that conclusion from the discussions about how transwomen are male and still retain a similar male pattern behaviour towards violence and sexual assault. I see a lot of discussion about the fact that also there are predatory males who may mis-use the trust that a transwoman should be welcomed in a female space (including hospital wards and prisoners) because people have misused trust in the past eg. abusive priests, scout leaders etc. That is the discussions I have seen. But I don't read every single thread there.

Another is that every transgendered person has mental health issues and needs urgent treatment instead of being able to identify as they like, this is also mentioned frequently on there.

Again, you seem to be generalising considerably. We are told that the basis for most people wishing to take the step to transition is gender dysphoria and from statistics around young people transitioning at the moment, there seems to be overwhelmingly co-morbidities that are being untreated. Are you saying that gender dysphoria is NOT a mental health issue?

Even ex gender clinic psychiatrists have expressed concern that people are going into the clinics believing that transitioning is the cure all and that might explain why post-transition suicide ideation is so high.

Another is referring to them as "beared blokes in dresses" (this one I've always managed to report and get removed). Yes. This would be transphobic and you should report this (unless it was actually someone who identified as a bloke and liked dresses).

I am not going to discuss the racist element as to be honest, I have not really read that widely on those threads. But any racist elements should definitely be deleted.

And quite successfully derailing this thread about how problematic Mermaids, and the approaches they favour, are.

Cross-posted with Ninkanink. I agree that having boundaries on issues of consent that are necessary to protect women and children is not -phobic, nor hateful. Seems unbelievable that anyone comes onto a Mumsnet board to argue against that.

Well the constant idea that all transwomen are secretly men trying to get into women's spaces to sexually assault them, that is trotted out a lot on the feminist board

I challenge you to find a single post where anyone has said that all transwomen are trying to do that, never mind 'constantly' (you will fail that challenge, as you already know). That is NOT the same as saying that females are entitled to female-only spaces, which is not at all transphobic.

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude

www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment/

The NHS guidance states that the long term risks are not known.

Thanks Chaz. I'm keen to keep the conversation around Mermaids and the medicalisation of children (including off-label and unregulated/experimental use of drugs in children) going, despite the embarrassing attempts to derail this important discussion.