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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think 'big food' industry is to blame for the obesity epidemic, not individuals?

460 replies

aintnothinbutagstring · 05/07/2020 15:29

When I read on MN, and when I talk to people IRL, there's an underlying attitude to obesity that it is all down to willpower, or lack of, and individual choice over whether to be fat or thin. If we all tried a little harder and were disciplined, everyone could be their ideal weight.

I recently got on to reading some books on processed food, they are not new concepts, the ideas have been around a while. Lots of scientists and MDs from the US, where the obesity epidemic is a little further down the road than in the UK, have written about the addictive nature of processed food, books such as 'Wheat Belly', 'The Dorito Effect', Robert Lustig has done many talks on it. In the UK, Joanna Blythman has wrote quite a bit on the UK food industry.

Some have linked processed food to activating dopamine receptors in the brain so it works like other addictions. Yet cannot escape it once we walk into a supermarket, most of what is for sale there is very highly processed food. It's all sugar, salt, wheat, the bad fats (processed oils like rapeseed, not natural fats which are healthy). Flavours created by amazing scientists so you'd rather eat the flavour chemicals than the actual food.

Yet we are telling obese people, some of whom may be using food addiction to deal with past trauma, lifestyle stress etc, 'it is your choice, what you eat, you need to try harder, have more self respect, more willpower'.

I see obese people now as 'you are a victim of 'big food', the companies (only a handful of global billion pound companies) that produce and cleverly advertise and use supermarkets to sell this highly refined, highly addictive processed food'. If they were educated and told it's not their fault, they might decide they don't want to play the 'big food' game anymore.

OP posts:
Blackandwhitehorse · 08/07/2020 21:44

@canigooutyet

Can you link me to any of these findings and how this prove the obesity crisis is all personal responsibility? I also don’t believe these prove personal fault anyway btw. Summarised below.

Do you believe it’s 100% personal choice? If yes how do you propose we counter this?

Do you disregard all other studies which suggest personal choice is only a small part of the picture?

  1. portion size - yes people on this thread have suggested we make portion sizes smaller so people don’t have to use ever decreasing reserves of willpower- willpower is a theory which is contested. An actual link for you so you don’t rely on believing a random person on the internet www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/science-and-health/2018/1/15/16863374/willpower-overrated-self-control-psychology

  2. variety - what’s your point here? How does this relate to it being an individuals fault?

  3. Yes it would be lovely to all sit at a dining table with a home cooked meal. But after a stressful tiring day I don’t blame people for doing this. How can we help people to make the right choice?

  4. alcohol - you’re proving my point here. Growing up in a nation that drinks alcohol will of course mean individuals are influenced by this and drink more than in other countries, if you live in an alcohol heavy environment of course this is an influence.

  5. yes agree about insecurity and influence being a factor - you’re agreeing with me here - this all forms part of our environment. Not a reason to blame individuals at all.

You’re keen to disregard the Blue Zones research, however I have read up on it thanks and others relating research, and the over arching points stand regardless who was the founder - research evolves and is added too, there may be points that aren’t perfect but you don’t disregard all findings but instead keep researching. There’s plenty of other stats out there including growing obesity in Africa coinciding with a fast food industry. What do you think about this?

Gwenhwyfar · 08/07/2020 21:57

"In France they sit at a table with actual plates and cutlery and eat a planned meal that draws on typical French ingredients and dishes, and is designed with the idea of developing good food habits and enjoyment of different foods."

3 course meals as well, but do school dinners here not involve actual plates and cutlery? The hot dinner option I mean?

"s a person who is not from the UK, I see the UK as having a real food culture, it's just been lost to some degree."

That's the point. It's been lost to the degree that a poster doesn't understand what regional food is.

Blackandwhitehorse · 08/07/2020 22:33

@canigooutyet

This is from another academic study. I look forward to seeing an academic study which suggests obesity is 100% or even largely personal responsibility.

Interestingly now lots of research into how our gut biome affects weight too. I’m always interested to learn more.

What academics are agreeing on seemingly across the board is that it is multi factor.

academic.oup.com/bmb/article/123/1/159/3930933

‘There is an increasing idea that obesity arises beyond a simple imbalance between energy intake and expenditure. It is also very clear the important role of genetics and lifestyle factors in the development of obesity. The heritability studies point to a high genetic component of obesity, nevertheless until now only a small portion of that component was unravelled. On the other hand, the western societies promote the development of obesity making available highly caloric diets and sedentary behaviours. However, there is also a growing awareness to a healthy lifestyle. This review focused on two major environmental factors, nonetheless, other factors such as stress, alcohol and various industrial chemicals may also contribute to obesity by epigenetic mechanisms. Thus, the underlying causes for obesity are far more complex, involving social and cultural aspects, and at a more biological context involving epigenetics mechanisms, regulation of food intake, and even the contribution of the gut microbiota’

lemondrizzlehedgehog · 08/07/2020 22:45

I think it is a bit simplistic to apportion blame to an individual for disordered eating. Like blaming someone for anorexia. These things are complex and often brain chemistry or hormones are an issue as well as emotional or trauma issues. For example, I have read medical research papers there is a link with disordrerd eating (including BED/obesity etc) in women who have PCOS. PCOS affects both mental and physical health. Often women with PCOS may have a psychiatric diagnosis or symptoms (anxiety, depression, BPD, Bipolar seem to be the main ones) as well as food issues.

ClaryFray · 08/07/2020 22:52

I think blaming the companies is the easy option. Yes it's convenient but we all have a choice.

canigooutyet · 08/07/2020 23:24

In a specific situation, sure, you can muster willpower to save yourself from falling back into a bad habit. But relying on willpower alone to accomplish goals “is almost like relying on emergency brake when you are driving your car,” Saunders says. “You should focus on things that drive you toward your goals rather than stopping things that are in your way.” What’s more, the human “emergency brake” that is willpower is bound to fail in some instances, causing you to crash.

canigooutyet · 08/07/2020 23:36

This is also an interesting list of the really old around the world.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_supercentenarians_by_continent

Blackandwhitehorse · 08/07/2020 23:48

Glad you read the willpower article, it’s interesting isn’t it? You missed off the bottom part of the section in your quote which makes some important points too:

‘And it’s time we all took these lessons to heart. Focusing on failures of willpower leads to shame, both public and private, and holds back our curiosity from finding and enacting solutions that actually work.’

I thought this quote was also interesting considering the discussion

‘As anyone who has struggled with a diet knows, willpower won’t work in the long run. And failures of inhibition are too often confused for a moral failing. We blame willpower failings for weight gain, even though it’s genetics and our calorie-laden environments conspiring against out waistlines. We blame addicts for not restraining their urges, even though their addiction has a biological hold on their brain.
And overall, psychologists are shying away from the concept, as years of work suggesting that willpower is a finite, essential resource has come under intense scrutiny.‘

wafflyversatile · 08/07/2020 23:51

Humans have evolved over millennia to like high calorie food.

How many people are obese compared to 50 years ago or 100 years ago? Humans dont evolve that fast. We are required to do less physical labour but have more cheap and more processed and high calorie food than ever before with an industry motivated to increase their profits year on year. Of course it's a major contributor. People haven't significantly evolved over the last few hundred years to lose will power or like sugar and fat more. Humans have always loved sugar and fat. Dental health took a dive when sugar became more available a few hundred years ago.

canigooutyet · 08/07/2020 23:51

This is a good read about will-power

www.sciencefocus.com/science/this-article-is-scientifically-proven-to-improve-your-willpower/

Pisspotical · 09/07/2020 00:07

Forget academic studies. The majority of people that are obese are inactive, lazy, or a combination of both.
The problem is self perpetuating. People eat, slob around, put weight on, thus making any exercise more difficult.

wafflyversatile · 09/07/2020 00:28

Yeah forget academic studies. Listen to some idiot chinny reckon on the internet instead.

lemondrizzlehedgehog · 09/07/2020 01:30

Well, I am fat but I don't see it as a moral issue. It is a health issue. nothing to do with blame. blame doesnt help anyone

Jullyria · 09/07/2020 03:16

This reply has been deleted

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Alisonjabub · 09/07/2020 03:19

Big food is the cause. Individuals to blame. You are responsible for you. no one else.

Goosefoot · 09/07/2020 04:59

@Gwenhwyfar

"In France they sit at a table with actual plates and cutlery and eat a planned meal that draws on typical French ingredients and dishes, and is designed with the idea of developing good food habits and enjoyment of different foods."

3 course meals as well, but do school dinners here not involve actual plates and cutlery? The hot dinner option I mean?

"s a person who is not from the UK, I see the UK as having a real food culture, it's just been lost to some degree."

That's the point. It's been lost to the degree that a poster doesn't understand what regional food is.

My post was probably a bit confused - I was taking about Canada in part with the lunches, school cafeterias use fast food typies of dishes at high schools. Most schools for younger kids are just eat a box lunch at your desk.

I'm not sure if UK schools use real plates etc most of the time, but from what I have seen the types of food and environment are a lot more like we have here than what they do in France.

Yes, I take your point about regional food.

newtb · 09/07/2020 05:10

Often much of the processed is 'nutrition lite' and so people need to eat more of it to get sufficient nutrients.

Not a food, but with regard to chocolate it's why a couple of squares of high cocoa solids chocolate is more satisfying than a bar of the crappy stuff.

Think of the numbers of different sugars and starches added to foods when you read the labels, often added to improve 'mouth feel'.

Interestingly, the APA, the Association of Public Analysts, was founded to control food adulteration.

Gwenhwyfar · 09/07/2020 10:58

"I'm not sure if UK schools use real plates etc most of the time, but from what I have seen the types of food and environment are a lot more like we have here than what they do in France."

Yes, probably, but we definitely used plates and cutlery when I was at school and I'd be interested to know if that changed. We're not that bad are we?!

roarfeckingroar · 09/07/2020 11:04

Nope.

Individuals buy the food, put food in their mouths, put on weight and still carry on. Many people manage not to despite "big food". So IMO blame lies with weak willed people.

Iknewyouwerewaitingforme · 09/07/2020 11:11

Noone is forced to eat any type of food, tempting as so many foods are. The myth that its all McDonalds /junk food companies fault is a load of rubbish. Everyone has a choice to eat this or not. Everyone is aware how fatty/calorie laden they are- but might choose to ignore it. Everyone is aware if you binge out one night fine- but then do some exercise to offset it or cut back the next day, some people don't do this.
Its not just the obvious i.e. fast food/junk food that can make someone overweight- my downfall has always been carbs- pasta being one of them which wouldn't be labelled as a fast food. We need to stop nannying adults in society and make people far more responsible for their own choices and actions rather then always seeking to blame blame blame.

Defenbaker · 09/07/2020 15:36

OP, you made some interesting points, but the food industry is just one factor in a complex scenario. I've noticed that there seems to be an accepted culture of snacking and grazing between meals, and I've seen many parents hand out snacks and fizzy drinks to their children when collecting them from school, as though the children need this to sustain them on the journey home (even when they are being driven home). This type of thing was unheard of when I was a child, and my walk to school was well over a mile.

Also, in the UK food is plentiful and much more affordable than it used to be, due to intensive farming methods etc, so people are a bit spoilt for choice and things that were once seen as occasional treats (chocolate/sweets) are consumed every day by many people. Humans seem to be programmed to enjoy foods that are high in fat/sugar, so the cards are stacked against people who are trying to lose weight.

I'm about a stone overweight and have been heavier, but I don't blame anyone for this but myself. I was brought up to eat 3 meals a day, my mother cooked meals from scratch and snacking between meals was discouraged (Mum would say "No, you can't have that - it'll spoil your dinner!"). But over the years I developed some bad habits and comfort ate. I'm eating more mindfully now, including more fruit and veg, and doing more exercise. The weight is slowly coming off.

lljkk · 09/07/2020 15:40

I can't change big companies or the world but there's a lot I can do to change my own behaviour.

wafflyversatile · 09/07/2020 17:30

Defenbaker how do you think that culture of snacking and grazing came about? Just from nowhere? Or because parents now, just from nowhere, have different brains from parents of the past?

Gwenhwyfar · 09/07/2020 18:40

"Noone is forced to eat any type of food, tempting as so many foods are."

Not forced, no, but nudged towards it when it's easier and cheaper.

Gwenhwyfar · 09/07/2020 18:41

@lljkk

I can't change big companies or the world but there's a lot I can do to change my own behaviour.
You can change big companies actually by lobbying the government so that we call all be healthier as a society, not just you.
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