To think 'big food' industry is to blame for the obesity epidemic, not individuals?

[aintnothinbutagstring]

When I read on MN, and when I talk to people IRL, there's an underlying attitude to obesity that it is all down to willpower, or lack of, and individual choice over whether to be fat or thin. If we all tried a little harder and were disciplined, everyone could be their ideal weight.

I recently got on to reading some books on processed food, they are not new concepts, the ideas have been around a while. Lots of scientists and MDs from the US, where the obesity epidemic is a little further down the road than in the UK, have written about the addictive nature of processed food, books such as 'Wheat Belly', 'The Dorito Effect', Robert Lustig has done many talks on it. In the UK, Joanna Blythman has wrote quite a bit on the UK food industry.

Some have linked processed food to activating dopamine receptors in the brain so it works like other addictions. Yet cannot escape it once we walk into a supermarket, most of what is for sale there is very highly processed food. It's all sugar, salt, wheat, the bad fats (processed oils like rapeseed, not natural fats which are healthy). Flavours created by amazing scientists so you'd rather eat the flavour chemicals than the actual food.

Yet we are telling obese people, some of whom may be using food addiction to deal with past trauma, lifestyle stress etc, 'it is your choice, what you eat, you need to try harder, have more self respect, more willpower'.

I see obese people now as 'you are a victim of 'big food', the companies (only a handful of global billion pound companies) that produce and cleverly advertise and use supermarkets to sell this highly refined, highly addictive processed food'. If they were educated and told it's not their fault, they might decide they don't want to play the 'big food' game anymore.

@aintnothinbutagstring

But putting the blame on the individual has so far not worked, we will follow the US in obesity levels and you will all pay for it by increased tax to fix even the damage to slimmer people caused by the shit food we are being sold.

It hasn't 'not worked', but we now live in a society where obesity is applauded - obese models, "Big is beautiful" etc. Not to say obese people should hide indoors or be ashamed of themselves, but we're not even allowed to use the word fat now, we have to say 'big', 'curvy', 'valuptupus' etc. People genuinely think you can be fat and healthy these days. You can't, at least not long term.

YANBU but most people cannot see the wood for the trees where the argument is concerned. It's all very well to say we have cause and effect... That doesn't help a young mum who's been brought up on processed food and has a strong meal time identity rooted in oven to table, plastic and tins to keep it quick. It is down to education. There has been a systematic dumbing down of large swathes of society. Willingly so at times - class deference. Don't need to be eating post food.. Look at the food banks - the food offered is what most would consider absolute junk food. All heavily processed. Look at institutions. At Broadmoor most inmates are obese but they are offered only junk food. They are all very vulnerable people. It is a culture of "they don't know how to cook" but the truth is that it is down to a lack of concern care towards our more vulnerable in society. And guess what it's rooted in? Money.

voluptuous

I think it's way more complicated. Portion sizes are a big problem - food is easily available and many of us have got used to larger portions rather than the regimen tally measured out ones of previous generations. As a society we are more sedentary - cars and public transport are easily available and often quicker. Our children are kept home where its safer so aren't out running around for hours every day.

Eating out is far more normalised than it was. Growing up, even things like a coffee out was a treat. There certainly weren't take out places on every corner. Ditto, eating out generally was an occasional thing. (Eg I lost a small amount of weight at beginning of lockdown. I can only put it down to not having my regular toast and coffee at Costa, my weekly meal out with girlfriends ans my odd lunch time sandwich when out and about).

All of these, combined with processed and convenience foods often high in fat and sugar are responsible.

Some of us have health issues I can longer cut veg as I used too I love sweet corn and can buy ready cooked in packets we’ve a small green grocers Now near us and we’re always in there, yes I enjoy the junk food but nothing beats strawberries grapes, sweet corn raspberries. Easy peel satsumas.

My own belief is obesity is generally an eating disorder, much like anorexia nervosa or bulimia and until it is treated as such the problem will continue.

You cant completely absolve the individual of responsibility

There are many reasons why we have an obesity epidemic, and yes a big part of it is that we have such a massive supply of processed food. But at the same time it is also true that if an individual had more willpower, and makes the right choices they wont be fat. It is still their choices that made them fat

In the last 60ish years we have gone from

• generally having a woman at home preparing meals to having both adults working outside the home, so less time to cook and shop
• moved from working class jobs being largely manual to very often sedentary, eg driving
• seen a massive surge in the availability of highly processed, high sugar and fat foods that don't satisfy hunger and are actively designed in a lab to encourage you to eat more and more of
• seen an explosion in the amount of meals consumed outside the home, with dining out food having far more calories than home cooked food

Its not in the least bit surprising that there's huge rates of obesity, society has shifted so much and our evolutionary drive (to eat and store fat to see us through famine) hasn't caught up. The rise in diet culture and body shaming has made everything worse by propagating a culture of binge - restrict - binge. Sure, on an individual level personal responsibility is great but if so many people are now obese when they weren't before, then clearly we need to take a holistic approach to the problem rather than finger pointing.

I don't think people have changed in any basic way, but if you look at a photo of a beach in 1950, you will notice the people look a lot different. Especially children.

Clearly something has changed.

I think the food industry is a huge part of it. But also how we eat and where, and that feeds into the food industry.

People spend way more time in cars and eat on the go, they are all going in separate directions so family meals are less common, in many homes both parents work FT and kids are in activities. So more reliance on packaged foods.

Sleep may be another issue, most of us are now chronically under-sleeping and that seems to be a real contributor to obesity.

Exercise is also an issue, people walk less, are less active, spend a lot more time on screens, many communities are less walkable, few children walk to school, parents don't let kids go to parks of playgrounds alone so they stay in until someone can take them....

It all adds up to a perfect storm.

For the most part, it's peoples choices causing them to be overweight. They can blame different illnesses, but a lot of illnesses are caused by being overweight. Some aren't, but a lot are. They don't want to eat healthily, they don't want to exercise. That's not going to make you healthy is it?

But food costs don't help. Healthy food costs more than unhealthy food in general, for quick food at least. People are lazier now in making a dinner from scratch, yet it doesn't have to be difficult. Just some meat in the oven and some boiled potatoes would be healthier than a pizza.

It is people's attitudes for the most part. No getting around it.

Yes and no.

There is obviously an element of individual choice. And then there are individual issues such as eating disorders and negative ideas towards food, lack of knowledge about healthy recipes and portion sizes, other medical conditions which make losing weight/preventing weight gain difficult.

I do agree with you, though, that unhealthy food has become so widely available that it becomes almost impossible to avoid it. There's also a massive problem with the link to poverty: 'junk' food is almost always cheaper and easier, so if you are strapped for cash and time, you basically have no other options. Cheap, healthy, filling choices (e.g. brown rice, lentils/pulses, frozen fruit and veg which costs a lot less that fresh) isn't marketed in the same way and is seen as 'boring'. Some of it is a bit bland: I love lentils, for example, but they need spices and other veggies with them in a soup to be tasty, and that can be costly. Whereas a loaf of bread is already 'tasty' and requires no prep at all.

That all being said, there are some people who have access to information, time, and money, yet are still overweight/obese. Then it becomes more about personal responsibility and (especially) portion size, as PP have said. My lovely lentil soup would make me gain weight if I ate enough of it, but it's lower-calorie and more filling than bread, so it's harder to overeat. Even if you're exclusively eating heavily processed food, it won't necessarily make you overweight unless you're eating too much of it.

Its a wide range of issues and different for each individual. Interesting a person having a high number of ACEs is more likely to be an obese adult.

Some people don’t have the confidence to cook, others don’t have the facilities, time, health (be it physical or mental etc).

It doesn’t help that premade goods are a poor choice, I have type one diabetes, I cannot eat any premade tomato based sauce (as in pasta sauce) as they are so high in sugar. If I want to I can make a tomato based pasta sauce in ten minutes, but it is more expensive than buying a jar.

It starts in early childhood, the food at my sons nursery was pure carbs and sugar, looking at his school if they were doing hot dinners tomorrows option would be sausage, mash and gravy pudding is a steamed sponge and custard. There is an optional side salad, mmm side salad with gravy. Despite them being free due to his age my son doesn’t have school meals, I send him with pack up instead (proper pack up, not plastic ham on white bread) so he does get a balanced lunch with actual fruit and veg. On Tuesday he’ll be taking leftovers as usual, so a veg chilli wrap, banana and carrot sticks.

My son is five and he can make basic things, but I have the luxury of time and the money if the ingredients end up wasted.

Good food is cheap, but you need facilities to cook it, confidence to do and be comfortable trying something new.

We also don’t prioritise exercise in the UK. I always find it odd that people will consider if they have time to walk a dog for an hour a day, but they don’t give appropriate time for their own exercise or their childrens exercise.

I am overweight even though I only eat one meal a day, 95% I cook from scratch with the occasional pizza etc and very little processed food. Unfortunately I take a medication which contributes to my weight but I can't live without it.

Someone who I know is obese and they eat huge amounts of all types of food, lots of processed, takeaways, fizzy drinks, chocolate, sweets etc, despite having diabetes and doesn't eat fruit or vegetables.

If we take as an example a ham shank - I would eat half with veg for my dinner and half for another meal, whereas she will eat two shanks in one meal.

So I'm sure processed food plays a part but so does greed and overeating.

I used to make my own shepherds pies lasagna roasts the lot I can now it broke my heart when I realised I was having difficulty cutting and chopping things arthritis but for me that’s life I have to make do with ready made stuff.

I think its up to the individual, you decide what you put in your mouth. I was obese for years due to a crap childhood you could say. I had zero confidence and used food as a comfort. I'd eat 4 bars of chocolate at once, have my tea then a pizza later because I was greedy.

I took up running went on a diet and finally got to my ideal weight, I like been thinner.

From what I've seen of all the fat people I know, they like to eat crap then make a joke of how they'll never be thin, so let's eat and be fat and proud! It's almost celebrated to be fat nowadays "love your curves!" Nah..

There is VERY FEW people who are obese through something out of their control...

People can blame industry and food processing for so many things as much as they want to but customers share responsibility there.

Everyone wants everything cheap and last for ever and tasty. That obviously comes with price🤷🏻

As pp said. None of it will make you obese unless you overeat. That said, it's still not good for us and messes with digestive system. The more natural I eat the less issues I have. And many people around me.

Bit again. That industry is going nowhere as long as people refuse to pay adequate prices for quality food🤷🏻

if so many people are now obese when they weren't before, then clearly we need to take a holistic approach to the problem rather than finger pointing.
And to a certain degree maybe hold the food industry responsible. Along with city planners and individuals.
It’s a complex problem.

@aintnothinbutagstring

But putting the blame on the individual has so far not worked, we will follow the US in obesity levels and you will all pay for it by increased tax to fix even the damage to slimmer people caused by the shit food we are being sold.

The only thing that will work is when the individual decides to take responsibility for what they put in their mouth and how much.

It's not about 'blaming' the individual, anymore than it is about blaming industry.

Blame doesn't get results, personal action does.

@BlingLoving

I think it's way more complicated. Portion sizes are a big problem - food is easily available and many of us have got used to larger portions rather than the regimen tally measured out ones of previous generations. As a society we are more sedentary - cars and public transport are easily available and often quicker. Our children are kept home where its safer so aren't out running around for hours every day.

Eating out is far more normalised than it was. Growing up, even things like a coffee out was a treat. There certainly weren't take out places on every corner. Ditto, eating out generally was an occasional thing. (Eg I lost a small amount of weight at beginning of lockdown. I can only put it down to not having my regular toast and coffee at Costa, my weekly meal out with girlfriends ans my odd lunch time sandwich when out and about).

All of these, combined with processed and convenience foods often high in fat and sugar are responsible.

I find it really interesting to talk to my mum, who is 67, about this. Her home was pretty typical for the 50s, her mum a very typical wartime cook, so not exciting. But they had a meal sitting down every night, eating out was a few times a year except for family vacation. They had a roast on Sunday and the leftover meat was used for the rest of the week, so while they weren't vegetarian, they were not meat heavy at all. She didn't eat fast food until she was a teenager. Lunches were packed, or until high school, they walked home and ate a lunch there and walked back to school.

Schools here now offer total crap for lunch.

Schools here now offer total crap for lunch.

School lunches won't make a healthy child obese though.

Only the parents (or medical issues) can do that.

I think the issue is both time and portion sizes. Pre lockdown I would often work from 9am to 10pm and functioned on little sleep. Food took a back seat and I subsisted on takeaway shite and coffee mainly. During lockdown I'm wfh and have a more normal schedule. I get decent sleep so im energised and motivated to cook. I'm no longer getting home at 10.30pm needing quick food, I have time to cook. As a result I'm eating miles healthier. The only 'treat ' food I currently have is chocolate, in the fridge. Plenty of fruit and veg. It's cheaper to do this so I'm watching what I spend on food. I'm also going back to my uni days of bulking out meals. I chuck veg into any meal, including micro rice, so it lasts further. Because theres extra veg there a packet of micro rice now lasts two meals. Im also listening to body and only eating when hungry. In work, if I know my next chance to eat wont be for 4 hours I'll have to eat even if not hungry at that precise moment. For me my diet has changed so much in lockdown. I'm actually dreading the return to pre lockdown life as I'll become knackered and less healthy again. Atm I'm making extra portions of meals and freezing them, and plan to take them into work when things resume. I do think ridiculously hectic work schedules are partly to blame

@Holothane

You could get a machine that cuts veg up for you.

www.amazon.co.uk/Andrew-James-Mandoline-Vegetable-Attachments/dp/B00LTQCLOW/ref=asc_df_B00LTQCLOW/?hvlocphy=1007316&linkCode=df0&hvptwo&psc=1&hvnetw=g&hvadid=309920218458&hvpone&hvlocint&hvpos&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl&hvqmt&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&hvtargid=pla-598275561043&hvrand=16748327918686993681

@Holothane

I used to make my own shepherds pies lasagna roasts the lot I can now it broke my heart when I realised I was having difficulty cutting and chopping things arthritis but for me that’s life I have to make do with ready made stuff.

Its a good point that people often forget or aren’t aware of. My boyfriend has a physical disability which means he has very limited use of his hands, he can’t chop, peel, grate etc so if he cooks he has to use more expensive prepared veg. He also can’t really lift anything, so lifting a saucepan full of water or a baking tray from the oven isn’t an option.

He knows how to cook, he just can’t physically cook most things, before he moved in virtually all food was either a microwave meal, microwaved veg or eating out.

While you can get well balanced prepared food it is very very expensive.

But putting the blame on the individual has so far not worked, we will follow the US in obesity levels and you will all pay for it by increased tax to fix even the damage to slimmer people caused by the shit food we are being sold.

I agree with this.

Some obese people are addicted to food (have an eating disorder) and it’s very hard to overcome addiction with willpower. I think they need access to much better treatment & resources.

For those who are overweight, yes there are many factors, but I believe that the ready availability of high-calorie, low-nutrition, overprocessed food is a huge one.

Processed, addictive food = profit

If/when we go the way of the US, and I think we will, treatment for obesity-related healthcare will also = profit.

But while I agree that the food industry and lack of regulation should bear a great deal of responsibility, we all need to take responsibility for our own health and make informed choices that suit us to the best of our ability. Because there are whole industries that are trying to stop us from doing that.

I also dont like the 'healthy' language and am trying to stop using it. No food is good or bad, some food is more nutritious than others. 'Healthy ' eating or 'trying to eat healthy ' conjures up images of no chocolate at all, obsessing over calories and basically deprivation. It leads to instabloggers labelling hummus 'quite naughty ' and that they eat rice on the weekend for a treat. The healthy / good and bad food mindset is damaging as it just contributes to the binging cycle. If I tell myself I cant eat chocolate then I want it more. If I tell myself I'm only allowed a square a day I want more. If I have it in the fridge and tell myself I'll listen to my body and eat what I feel like, then it becomes just food as opposed to something to make a big deal over. When on slimming world I'd restrict for weeks then binge a big sharing bar of aero to myself. I've had a bar in the fridge for a week and haven't really wanted it.
I've started tracking calories.but notice I want to eat more and feel hungrier when I'm doing that. It's the.mindet that I cant have x because I don't have the calories, rather than I womt have x because I'm not hungry. Tracking on mfp feeds into my obsessive under or over eating and makes the focus.to be calories. In the past I've lost a lot of weight but.teally unhealthily and with a damaging mindset. I'm now focusing on eating when I'm hungry, stopping when no longer hungry, and eating home cooked food that I enjoy making and eating. I'm trying new recipes and not fussed on the calories.etc, just make sure its sensible portions with some fruit or veg at each meal. If I fancy chocolate, have a few squares and if.i really want more I can walk downstairs and get it. I find if I have a pretty big.meal eg fajitas with sour cream and cheese that I dont want to eat anymore that evening anyho6