State school teachers moonlighting as private tutors during their 'working' hours

[UmbrellaHat]

Should be sacked
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/state-school-teachers-moonlighting-private-22303681

I’m not stepping away from calling out derogatory language

You accepted it wasn’t racist. It was, of course, derogatory, but as that was the intention and you haven’t reported the post for deletion (or hadn’t last time I looked), I’m not sure what joy you are hoping for by continuing to post.

jimmy, when you are compared to an ape, the subspecies really isn’t the important part!

Good job that no-one has ever written something called the chimp paradox then.

@darkcaramel

Oh pothole, please tell me you don’t believe that because someone didn’t mean to be racist, something therefore isn’t?

There are certain words we just do not use, I’m not going to list what they are because they are so unacceptable. N word, P word, you get my drift I am sure. We just don’t use them because in any context they are unacceptable.

Obviously the word ‘chimp’ in and of itself doesn’t fall into that category because otherwise zoo keepers and the like would have a hard job! What I am objecting to here is the post compared my intelligence to a chimps - I could teach a chimp to be more rational.

Not a cat or crow, a chimp.

We don’t compare people to cats or crows as a put-down, as a rule. People ARE compared to chimps, gorillas and apes, because that stemmed from slavery and well, black people are from Africa and so are apes so ...

It’s a way of saying you are sub-par; you are less than human; you are inferior to me.

That is why it is so unacceptable. I would never compare someone to any type of ape and I am really shocked at how many seem to think this is in any way acceptable, even claiming that I am the one with the problem.

Don’t use insults seeped in racism to put people down. That’s not difficult to do. It’s the same with words like mng, or re*rd - people occasionally use them without realising the history. Doesn’t make it acceptable.

Actually, I think intention does matter. Not the supreme factor, but it is one.

If it's not intended to reference race, and you know it wasn't meant to intend race, and factual reality shows it couldn't have been meant to refer to race because no-one can see what you look like, then maybe, just maybe it wasn't a racial slur.

I think your time would be better off developing rationality. If you don't like people thinking that you seem less teachable than a non-human animal, take the criticism on board and improve.

giraffe, if you think this is giving me ‘joy’ then you are mistaken.

Sometimes children use words that have connotations we are aware of but they are not - ‘this is gay’ probably being an example of this. I don’t think kids who use this are deliberately being homophobic a lot of the time but it doesn’t mean it’s acceptable.

I think the ‘chimp’ comparison was careless rather than racist but what I’m trying to explain here is that comparison using apes (of any type!) is something that came about because of racism. It’s not good enough to say oh well, didn’t mean it like that, and move on.

I don’t think it’s irrational to point out that words can be loaded in meaning, even when that meaning isn’t at the forefront of the individuals mind.

It is dismissive to say that this is irrational on my part: it isn’t.

As I keep saying, don’t use terms and phrases mired in historical racism to insult another person and all will be well.

I’m out. You don’t think it’s racist, you acknowledge that. Why are you arguing as if you think it was? Sorry it just seems that you are going out of your way to try and discredit echt in a really sly way. ‘I could teach a chimp to be more rational’ is not saying you are a chimp and as chimps aren’t particularly seen as racist tropes I do think you’re making a lot out of really very little.

@FrippEnos

Good job that no-one has ever written something called the chimp paradox then.

Yes! That’s what I was thinking of Fripp. Thanks

if you think this is giving me ‘joy’ then you are mistaken.

That’s my point, it’s clearly not, yet here you still are. My advice to step away from the thread was kindly meant.

I have never heard of people of colour being compared to chimps. Never.

I seem to remember Meghan Markles’s child being compared to a chimp. The chimp paradox references the concept of primitive brain when working through trauma - taming your inner chimp looking at how we come to understand and manage reflex reactions to situations that might be triggering.

“I could teach a chimp to be more rational” is insulting at best and in the current climate could be seen to have racist overtones. Surely the mature thing would be to apologise for the offence caused instead of telling someone they’re wrong to be offended. And yes, if someone said they could teach a chimp more easily than me - because I happened to disagree with them - I’d not be happy either.

But keep on defending the use of language, by all means.

I think what you are missing jimmy is that The Chimp Paradox was not written with the aim of silencing or insulting people - had it been written solely about black people, I think that you will find that it would in fact be completely unacceptable.

It is extremely misleading and wrong to claim I am just talking about the word chimp. I am talking about the comparison of me to an ape which was done to insult my intelligence.

The difference between:

We are all apes at heart (OK) and

You great big stupid gorilla (not OK.)

A link from the mirror OP? I'd be looking for a more reliable source if you want your very limited, throwaway statement to have any credibility on a public platform

Ooh, darkcaramel's post with the swearing (that occasioned the chimp remark) has been deleted.

Still saw it though.

Nice trick really. Swear at people, get their backs up and then seize on their response to discredit them.

caramel I’m not missing that and if echt had actually called you a chimp I would take a very different view. I think your inference is off. Sorry.

At the risk of being deleted again, what I said was to ‘piss off with your daffodils’ which actually wasn’t intended to get anyone’s back up. It was meant in an eye rolling sort of tone.

As I’ve said, I haven’t bothered to report anything here. I have noticed that everyone I’ve been arguing with is a teacher or ex-teacher, which is depressing.

If you want me to say I do everything right all the time pothole I won’t. I was deleted, fair cop, and if someone really, genuinely was insulted by me I would apologise.

I don’t think however to claim I set echt up in some way is fair at all. I was genuinely shocked at that chimp comment, as in, gob open, staring at my phone, did-she-actually-just-say-that shocked. I did think as soon as it was pointed out it would be retracted and we’d go back to an ‘ordinary’ argument, as it were. I can’t believe I’m still having to explain why chimps and people as a comparison don’t work.

Not a teacher.

Said that already. What was that you said to Romeo? Ah yes, "I think you need to check your comprehension skills".

and if someone really, genuinely was insulted by me I would apologise.

Do you think that when teachers have been getting angry, upset, defensive on the multiple ‘teacher basher’ threads over the years that they haven’t felt genuinely upset or insulted? You seem to have brushed off teachers’ feelings fairly lightly, tbf. How would you feel if you were now told to grow up and stop the silliness?

If it's against the terms of their contract then of course they shouldn't really be doing it. But no one kicks up a fuss when teachers spend their evenings and weekends doing school work. Presumably in current circumstances parents are keen to have tutoring sessions during school hours as part of their homeschooling, so tutors are responding to that need. It's reasonable to assume that all their school work is still being completed to the required standard or they'd have been pulled up by management.

See also: no one complains about consultants (who earn a shit ton more than teachers) using nhs time and resources for private work.

And the picture is of who?

Why are you going through all of my posts, pothole? It is really a peculiar thing to do. Romeo stated so dark (me) is an expert on education and schooling, to which telling somebody to check their comprehension skills is perfectly reasonable, given I did not say or even hint this

check your comprehension skills and ^i could teach a chimp to be more rational are not even close, if you are trying to claim I’m Just As Bad.

giraffe, as I have repeatedly said, I think that a lot of the ‘teacher bashing’ threads are nothing of the sort. I am not insulted when somebody says their DDs teacher is rubbish, because I am not their DDs teacher. I am insulted when someone says I am less intelligent then a chimp because as explained, it is to me personally where the former is not, and also has its origins as an insult mired in racism.

dark it was meant to be an insult. You were insulted. That’s the point of an insult.

If you don’t like being insulted you can report it to MNHQ who will deal with it.

Moaning about being insulted by an insult seems to be rather missing the point of an insult.

As long as they don't neglect their duties I do not blame them one bit.

giraffe it was not ‘just’ an insult, was it? It was an insult which in history, including recent history, has been used to be derogatory about black people.

Do I accept that wasn’t its intention: yes, do I think it was acceptable because this wasn’t the intention - No.

And ‘moaning’ is extremely dismissive. Would you tell a black child to stop moaning it someone called them a chimp?