WIBU to say no to bailing BIL out?

[YeahWhatevver]

Really struggling to work out what to do.

DH and BIL are relatively close. BIL has never been great with money, definitely lives for the moment. Has in the past had quite a bit of credit card debt and has previously struggled with managing his money. He has (had) a decent job BIL and SIL both work, though SIL is 2 days a week. They have 2 kids.

DH and BIL inherited just under 90k each about 2.5 years ago from their Mother's estate. Nothing was ever discussed about what they were planning to do with it, we put a lot of it into the mortgage or set it aside to put into the mortgage when our fixed term ends (want to a out early repayment fees) and have put some aside for our kids (first cars/bit ot money for college)

Looks like BIL spent most of his - none of our business it's his to use as he wants.

BIL is looking like he'll imminently lose his job. And called up DH asking of he has any of mum's inheritance left as he's in a bit of a spot a figure of £25k seems to have been banded about. Annoyingly DH said yes, we've got quite a bit in savings, so BIL knows we could if we wanted to

DH has previously "loaned" BIL money for it to never be returned fully.

Our family and BIL's family have similar incomes. So it's not like DH has got lucky while BIL has been dealt a bad hand in life.
BIL has a lot bigger house, 2 nice cars lots of personal finance

I can tell DH is protective of his brother and wants to help but I really want to just say no. We've made plans around this money, made sacrifices to be in the financial position we are now and I don't see why we should squander those plans to bail out someone who has failed to take responsibility for themselves.

Problem is, I can see this creating a huge rift.

WIBU to speak to BIL and say no?

@MimiLaRue

Why cant he sell one of his fancy cars? that would tide him over for a while.

Because they are on PPI, IIRC.

Pay off your mortgage or put that money in a time locked investment.

Your DH needs to start saying no to his brother, does he want his own children to have to struggle when he's got the money but sees fit to give it away to his feckless useless brother? What happens when your children see their cousins benefiting from expensive cars and paid university digs and they can't because their money has gone to your BIL?

Your BIL needs to deal with his own shit. He needs to sell the cars and get an old banger, he needs to downsize, because if he cant meet mortgage payments making a payment now will only be a temporary solution, he needs to then go out and accept any old job to tide him over so they can meet bills. And he needs to stop spending money he does not have.

I've been in debt (not of my own making), and I did not swan about expecting other people to fund my mansion and fleet of cars.

He's in a sector that's totally crashed and thinks that finding a new job will be very difficult

So in his own words, he's going to be unable to pay you back. If there's no prospect of another job, then when on earth will he have any surplus cash to pay you back. Point that out to your DH VERY CLEARLY.

Also if DH says he'll beat himself up if things go pear shaped for his brother, ask him if he'll beat himself up if he, you and the children never see that money again. How will he feel then, having let you all down?

It would be a no from me. You’ll never get it back.

Is there some part that you could help with such as agreeing to help look after their kids so they could both try to find work, or take them all on a family holiday either this summer or some time in the future?

Obviously your DH will help if they were ever at rock bottom, but they both need to take responsibility for their own finances and situation,.

terrible situation though. Am sure that BIL thought he had a job for life rather than him being knowingly reckless.

The bottom line is you would be fools to give away 25k

But it's your decision and if you do it you will have to come to terms with it.

Am sure that BIL thought he had a job for life rather than him being knowingly reckless

He was knowingly reckless though- OP said he's borrowed money before and not paid it back. This is an ongoing pattern, not a one off scenario!

Your BIL and SIL need a financial reset and to learn some lessons. If they can get their house in order by selling things, down sizing the house etc then great. If not and there are repossessions, tough. Throwing more money at them will delay the inevitable and it will deprive your family, the money will disappear into a black hole.

In 2 years they've managed to spend 90k plus whatever they've earned during that time. Thats ludicrous. If they want to live their life this way, the consequences should be theirs and theirs alone.

Tell your dh to pull his head out of BIL's arse. He's got his own up there and there's no more room. Absolute fucking no to "lending" BIL thousands of pounds you'll never see again. He made his choices with his 90k and the rest, now he'll have to refinance just like anyone else. I could do with £25k if your husband still fancies throwing money away!

25K loan is £416 for 5 years with no interest

Does he have a plan to pay it back ?

Will he receive any redundancy pay ?

The best way you two can help brother in law is by the gift of time. That is, the gift of helping him to bring his finances in line with his reality. That's why the person who had the idea of the financial audit was brilliant. Maybe brother in law needs to rent a room in his nice house to a boarder. Maybe he only needs one car for a while. Maybe he needs to sell one car and get something cheaper. Maybe he needs to look at what possessions he can sell on Ebay to make some ready cashdoes he have gaming systems or anything that has value? Does he have expensive hobbies? Nice clothes? What kind of work is his wife doing? Can either of them do any kind of moonlighting? Lots of people are looking for childcare right nowif they are Covid-free, maybe they could provide that if they are unemployed. Helping him to live within his means will last longer than any 25,000 that goes right down the rabbit hole.

You're not unreasonable to not want to loan your brother in law £25,000. That's a heck of a lot of money and, given past experience, you'd be unlikely to get much back. Your husband was a twit to say anything to him without discussing it first with you.

Sometimes a small amount of money can help with immediate problems while the bigger ones are being sorted out. In your position I'd offer something like £5,000 and not expect to be paid back, end of. However you don't have to offer anything at all.

No.

You know what will really cause a rift? Your DH handing over money only to see that pissed up against the wall too and the cars and posh house eventually still going to the wall and, on top of that, your DH resenting to the core that his brother would not only piss his own money away but also shit all over the way his brother sacrificed HIS OWN KIDS future pot of help for him.

Tough love.

This will NEVER change for them - until some crash comes. Let this be it so that they get a shock and start livign sensibly before its too late.

They SHOUDL sell up. They SHOULD get rid of the cars, etc.

They SHOULD have to go on a debt repayment plan.

If my DH prioritised his feckless brother over his own children I would never forgive him. Don't let you guys end up in a rift too.

'Sorry no, the money is all tied up.'

If your BIL has no savings and no job, how on Earth is he expecting to pay back £25'000? That's a shit lot of money to owe someone, and an amount that you don't just 'save up' easily. That'll be one hell of a long payment plan if he's going to pay it back once he gets another job.

Sorry no, if it was a one off, and he's previously been responsible with money and paid back other monies owed, then I might consider loaning him a couple of grand. But with his track record and the eye watering amount - no fucking way!

God no. They got the same amount of money and BIL blew his and now expects a cut of yours.
Like a kid that ate all his Easter eggs in one day then complains that his brother still has chocolate for the next week.

25k is a massive amount of money to take off your children. He'll have to get a job he doesn't really love, downsize his house, sell a car etc like anyone else would. I wouldn't budge an inch.

If this was me i'd just say no.

Its not like the 25 k would permanently solve the problem. It sounds like your shoving a lot of your money into a much bigger hole with no fear of ever getting it back. Your Bil isnt asking you to help him, hes asking if his brother has any of the inheritance money left so he can have it, and i believe he'd be thinking its 25k to tide him over a while. Not a loan till his house is sold, or some plan of exit.

I'd sit down with your partner and say this wont work, remind him of what he knows already about loaning stuff and not getting it back, explain they will have to sort out their finances (like put house on market, return the cars and replace with a small family owned vehicle, increase working days for wife) and when thats done of course if they needed help you could look at it again, but its just too much to throw away with no plan. If they need a car cos they cant finance theirs then you can buy one for 2k. least you'd have an asset that could be returned.

Your Dp will want to look out for his brother so you have to be willing to be portrayed as the bad one, allow him say he didnt know the money is locked away long term savings only you can access in 5 years or so, or any excuse he wants to use.

You are right there will be fall out in all liklihood but you can try manage this, better some fall out between you and inlaws than between you and your partner.

What the fuck has BIL spunked £90k on in 2 years?!

Your BIL needs to bite the billet and hand back the cars, plus speak to all his creditors with regards to setting up lower payment plans. It'll destroy his credit rating, but well tough really.

"He has a very big mortgage
2 cars on PCP
Finance on a very expensive kitchen
Plus other stuff that I dont know about."
He hasn't even lost his job yet but is preparing to leech off his DB and your family. They have obviously been living beyond their means if they can't stay afloat at least for a while.

You shouldn't be expected to bail them out with money you intended to use to pay down your mortgage. So, if you bail them out you have to pay your mortgage for longer so that they can keep their big house, kitchen and cars on the 'never never.' They lose nothing. Is that fair?

They need to contact their creditors and see if they can have interest on debts frozen and he needs to look for a job outside of his sector if he cannot find one in it. His wife may need to work more than 2 days per week and look into childcare arrangements.

We are not responsible for others. The best thing for them would be to trade down to a house they can afford and get rid of cars they can't afford. They may be able to have a Voluntary Termination of their PCP contracts (if they have paid 50% price) or, if not, voluntarily surrender them. They cannot afford them.

If you "lend" it to him you will never get it back, and that will cause a rift anyway. So just say no in the first place - it's highly likely you're going to fall out with BIL one way or another. Do it earlier rather than later and keep your 25k🤷🏻‍♀️

Don’t do it, you would just be throwing good money after bad. He isn’t going to suddenly change who he is and become responsible. The fact that he is asking you to bail him out before he even knows he has lost his job makes that clear.

Your families have both had equal inheritance, you chose to save yours and offset it against the mortgage. Therefore, you could say if questioned that it's in your mortgage.

Suggest you'd never like to interfere in their finances, but DH could talk frankly to his brother about his finances. Can they hand a car back, ask for payment holidays to save something, look to rent their house out and live in a smaller one etc. Take in lodgers, none of it is ideal but they're going to have to change the way they live.

We had to do similar a few years back, debt got too much, so we just stopped. No holidays, no credit cards, everything paid back. Now we're much more wary of getting into debt. I've just bought a new car on PCP but I've gone for a cheaper one than I had previously and not as luxurious a brand ( just an example). Payments are cheaper, offers are better & my work expenses offset the car payment as I need a car for work as travel quite abit. The answer really is with BIL & SIL examining their finances, not for you to get them out of debt. If they're in dire need, then I'd suggest giving them a couple of hundred pounds on a tesco ( or equivalent ) gift card, then they can buy groceries in their own time & they're not going to starve.

@Porcupineinwaiting

You must be v rich to just be able to give someone 25k. If you are not very rich, what on earth is your dh doing?

RTFT or at least the OP

Saying he'll talk to you about it is fully setting you up to be the Bad Guy.

If you lend him money then make sure every single repayment goes in to a set bank account from his account, every single one, no accepting cash payments etc. This way you have clear transaction records of what has and hasn't been paid back.

I lent my sister money for a car years and years ago and she never fully paid me back, I more recently lent her money again but this time did as above and got every cent back.

I am not sure I wold have taken the risk on 25k though but to be fair the money I had was what I had saved myself and I might be a little more generous if it was an inheritance that I never counted on in the first place rather than hard earned savings.