WIBU to say no to bailing BIL out?

[YeahWhatevver]

Really struggling to work out what to do.

DH and BIL are relatively close. BIL has never been great with money, definitely lives for the moment. Has in the past had quite a bit of credit card debt and has previously struggled with managing his money. He has (had) a decent job BIL and SIL both work, though SIL is 2 days a week. They have 2 kids.

DH and BIL inherited just under 90k each about 2.5 years ago from their Mother's estate. Nothing was ever discussed about what they were planning to do with it, we put a lot of it into the mortgage or set it aside to put into the mortgage when our fixed term ends (want to a out early repayment fees) and have put some aside for our kids (first cars/bit ot money for college)

Looks like BIL spent most of his - none of our business it's his to use as he wants.

BIL is looking like he'll imminently lose his job. And called up DH asking of he has any of mum's inheritance left as he's in a bit of a spot a figure of £25k seems to have been banded about. Annoyingly DH said yes, we've got quite a bit in savings, so BIL knows we could if we wanted to

DH has previously "loaned" BIL money for it to never be returned fully.

Our family and BIL's family have similar incomes. So it's not like DH has got lucky while BIL has been dealt a bad hand in life.
BIL has a lot bigger house, 2 nice cars lots of personal finance

I can tell DH is protective of his brother and wants to help but I really want to just say no. We've made plans around this money, made sacrifices to be in the financial position we are now and I don't see why we should squander those plans to bail out someone who has failed to take responsibility for themselves.

Problem is, I can see this creating a huge rift.

WIBU to speak to BIL and say no?

To be frank, I don't think it would be appropriate for the OP to be telling other family members not to lend money to the BIL. Well that's good, because that's not happened. OP and her DH had an adult conversation and OP DH decided not to give his brother more money and offered help both budget wise and or financial which his brother rejected/ignored.

Suggest BIL releases some of the equity from his own house I would suspect that BIL house is mortgaged to the hilt and there is no equity.

I think the best way forward here would be for the £25k to be loaned alongside helping the BIL implement a gradual and sustainable cost-cutting programme. Imo it's not fair on the BIL or the rest of his family to have the rug pulled out from under their whole lifestyle overnight.

BIl and his family had the chance to implement the cost-cutting programme last time he had to borrow and struggled to pay it back for a long time, but he didn't take it.

we had a similar situation in mine where an aunt of mine was having issues with debt and was nearly bankrupt. The family pulled together and different family members (including myself) contributed money to pull together the amount required to avoid bankruptcy proceedings

@FishyDuck, what would your reaction be if, after all that, your aunt carried on living a lavish lifestyle, didn't pay you back, and then came back to you after a couple of years and asked for more money to keep her and her family going?

It is not her money and if a family member feels (rightly IMO) that that they can provide a sum of money to allow the BIL to gradually and sustainably make changes without suffering a dramatic fall in living standards that could shatter the whole family's mental health, who is she to stop them?

How are they going to cut their expenditure by so much (they’ve already blown through a 90k windfall) without cutting their living standard? They weren’t living sustainably when they had BiL’s salary, they aren’t going to be able to keep up that standard of living now that they don’t. That’s a fantasy.

If they had been living sustainably and it looked like BiL would get another job reasonably quickly, then a loan could make sense. But in this situation it’s not going to eliminate the pain of changing their lifestyle. It would just put it off for a few months and it would burn through cash that the OP and her DH have put aside to ensure their own financial stability. Thereby putting them at risk without fundamentally helping BiL.

I made it a policy of mine as soon as i started working that i would never borrow or lend money...I have seen way too many people fall out over money...its just not worth it.

[quote FishyDuck]@happynow001

To be frank, I don't think it would be appropriate for the OP to be telling other family members not to lend money to the BIL.

It is not her money and if a family member feels (rightly IMO) that that they can provide a sum of money to allow the BIL to gradually and sustainably make changes without suffering a dramatic fall in living standards that could shatter the whole family's mental health, who is she to stop them?[/quote]
The OP and her DH have chosen to have fully shared finances for 20 years. Which makes the inheritance equally hers.

Also, the OP and her DH have had a full discussion about the BIL and his request, and her DH has opted to offer help with financial budgeting, etc.

Which is actually the more sensible thing to do. Giving BIL the money will not do anything other than stave off the inevitable collapse for a few months, if that (going by how quickly he seems to run through money).

BIL's lifestyle is simply not sustainable right now, and loaning money will not change this.

I certainly would give the heads up if I thought another family member was going to be tapped for a loan that they'd unlikely ever see a penny back of.

People often work very hard for their money and savings.

I would have absolutely zero tolerance for being asked to fund the lifestyle of someone living hugely beyond their means and unwilling to adjust it either.

Not a chance.
I think the BIL is a massive CF who clearly has very little respect for his brother that he would try and screw him over.

The calling it "mum's money" would niggle too.

if a family member feels (rightly IMO) that that they can provide a sum of money to allow the BIL to gradually and sustainably make changes without suffering a dramatic fall in living standards that could shatter the whole family's mental health, who is she to stop them?

@FishyDuck I am honestly flabbergasted by your repeated argument. You seriously think OP and her DH should give away all their savings and deprive their children of money set aside for their uni education to maintain the BIL's current living standards, which are clearly ridiculously beyond his means? It doesn't appear as though the 25k will make a dent in what BIL owes and OP and DH won't get the money back, but still that's okay? What about the mental health of OP, her DH and their children? Why doesn't theirs matter too?

I don't think fishyduck was meaning that it was inappropriate for the op and her DH to have a discussion about lending the money In this particular comment anyway.

They were replying to someone suggesting the op goes around warning other people BIL may ask for money. And actually in this case I agree that's totally not the ops place! Her and her dh have made their joint and in my opinion correct decision.

If BIL wants to ask other people then they can make the decision of wether to help or not! Depending on their circumstances ect.

If BIL wants to ask other people then they can make the decision of wether to help or not! Depending on their circumstances ect.

That works fine until you realise that some people may lend him money, not knowing his record around repayments, that they can't afford to lose. Then there are two families in financial difficulties because BIL doesn't have the willpower to curtail his spending.

I do agree and if the op is asked of course she should be honest but I don't think ringing around warning people would be the right move either. It's definitely a difficult position to be in for the op.

@poppinjay

Other family members can make their own decisions about whether to lend their own money- it is none of the OP's business to be quite frank.

@poppinjay

Other family members can make their own decisions about whether to lend their own money- it is none of the OP's business to be quite frank.

@FishyDuck

Your local college will soon be up and running again with lots of free courses. Arts and crafts, languages, fitness. All free and all a good way to get a new hobby.

Just sayin' :)

I just want to say congratulations for having a strong and equal partnership

Other family members can make their own decisions about whether to lend their own money- it is none of the OP's business to be quite frank.

Ensuring someone is making an informed choice doesn't require that you are part of the decision-making process or that you are informed of the outcome so I'm sure it would be fine

Trouble is - your DH is going to feel awful if BIL goes under after DH saying 'no'

DH isn't going to rationalise that BIL would have gone under anyway - which looks likely - DH will just beat himself up and might blame you , OP

I think I'd take this as a good opportunity to split the family finances between you and DH.

Why would DH feel awful if his brother goes under? It's nothing to do with DH, he couldn't have stopped him going under. From the sounds of it, £25K would be pissing in the wind, if BIL will not address his recklessly extravagant lifestyle, along with his wife.

Trouble is - your DH is going to feel awful if BIL goes under after DH saying 'no'

DH is going to feel more awful if his DC can't go to college/uni or get on the property ladder because the money saved for that has been pissed in the wind by his DB who cannot curb his spending.

The Ops husband will feel bad whatever happens.

1. BIL asks for money and he says no . He feels bad.
2. BIL asks for money , he says yes, BIL goes bankrupt anyway. He feels bad.
3. BIL asks for money, he says yes, BIL keeps up his lifestyle and doesn't pay it back. He feels bad.

So he might as well chose the option that doesn’t Impoverish his own kids, destroy his wife’s trust and rock his marriage.

If there was an option 4 - BIL borrows money, pays it back, is profoundly grateful , sees the error of his ways and totally changes his attitude to money and his lifestyle

then it would have happened after the last loan that wasn’t repaid.

DH is going to feel a lot worse when it comes out that he gave money for Uni etc to his brother despite his wife's preference that he didn't and the further knowledge the money was blown and never returned.

Husband will feel like a right twat.

Bil likely to go under anyway and take the Ops DH 25k with it. The problem here is the inability of a grown up professional man to manage his significant finances in a sensible, prudent and effective way. Ops DH, nor anyone, is responsible for how another adult lives their life. 25k would not amend the bil profligate nature nor shore up him and his family's unsustainable lifestyle. Bil can find another solution if he seeks it.
If the circumstances were different, I'm sure helping a family member or close friend with a short to medium term loan to help them through an unforeseen rough patch would be a lifeline and the thing to do, but not in this case.

Trouble is - your DH is going to feel awful if BIL goes under after DH saying 'no

This is an incredibly unhealthy stance. We are all responsible for our own lives. If a sibling over spends and throws all their money down the drain which is essentially what he’s done, it is no more his brothers responsibility to support him than it is a stranger off the street. The DH has ALREADY lent him money which he has frittered away so why on earth would he feel any guilt?! The second you start removing people’s responsibility to fix their own problems is the moment you actually PREVENT them from empowering themselves. It’s actually damaging to that person, not helpful. The BIL needs help for sure but he needs therapy or assistance to look at the reasons for his overspending. Giving him more money is akin to just giving a drug addict a packet of heroin and then being baffled why he hasn’t got clean.

Why would DH feel awful if his brother goes under?

The OP said DH would feel awful if he said no. Maybe he won't feel awful about saying no, after all?