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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

WIBU to say no to bailing BIL out?

578 replies

YeahWhatevver · 03/07/2020 13:31

Really struggling to work out what to do.

DH and BIL are relatively close. BIL has never been great with money, definitely lives for the moment. Has in the past had quite a bit of credit card debt and has previously struggled with managing his money. He has (had) a decent job BIL and SIL both work, though SIL is 2 days a week. They have 2 kids.

DH and BIL inherited just under 90k each about 2.5 years ago from their Mother's estate. Nothing was ever discussed about what they were planning to do with it, we put a lot of it into the mortgage or set it aside to put into the mortgage when our fixed term ends (want to a out early repayment fees) and have put some aside for our kids (first cars/bit ot money for college)

Looks like BIL spent most of his - none of our business it's his to use as he wants.

BIL is looking like he'll imminently lose his job. And called up DH asking of he has any of mum's inheritance left as he's in a bit of a spot a figure of £25k seems to have been banded about. Annoyingly DH said yes, we've got quite a bit in savings, so BIL knows we could if we wanted to

DH has previously "loaned" BIL money for it to never be returned fully.

Our family and BIL's family have similar incomes. So it's not like DH has got lucky while BIL has been dealt a bad hand in life.
BIL has a lot bigger house, 2 nice cars lots of personal finance

I can tell DH is protective of his brother and wants to help but I really want to just say no. We've made plans around this money, made sacrifices to be in the financial position we are now and I don't see why we should squander those plans to bail out someone who has failed to take responsibility for themselves.

Problem is, I can see this creating a huge rift.

WIBU to speak to BIL and say no?

OP posts:
Billben · 05/07/2020 18:43

@FishyDuck

I think there is certainly a troubling element of who controls the £25k to this. The money came from an inheritance of the DH- IMO it is therefore clear that the money belongs to him and it should be at his sole discretion what it is spent on.

It is his brother that is in difficulty and really the decision about the extent to which he helps him should be up to the DH. I'm not sure why the OP should even be involved- it is not and was never her money.

Don’t be so ridiculous 😂

DH’s money is family money. My money is family money. There is no his or hers. Only ours.

And hell no would I be helping out anybody who lives beyond their means when myself and DH have always been responsible with our money.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 05/07/2020 19:03

I think now that DH has had time to process it all ... he's a bit fucked off that BIL put him on the spot

I'm sorry he's been upset, but that's actually pretty good news in bringing you both onto the same page. It's natural for him to want to help his DB, but sadly he wanted enablement instead

It's no surprise that the sensible "SIL gets more hours" and "why care about appearances" didn't go down well though. Clearly BIL hasn't accepted his new circumstances yet, but hopefully he'll get there with the help of debt advice

areyoubeingserviced · 05/07/2020 19:06

Hope bil’s wife is not a mumsnetter.

PyongyangKipperbang · 05/07/2020 19:12

@areyoubeingserviced

Hope bil’s wife is not a mumsnetter.
I hope that she is as that way hopefully the message will get through, as clearly BIL isnt listening.

Id be interested to know if she knows how much debt they are in thinks that at least the kitchen and one of the cars was paid from from the inheritance....perhaps thats why BIL is desperate for a loan and not debt advice as that would mean her finding out.

PyongyangKipperbang · 05/07/2020 19:12

*or think that....

ZombieLizzieBennet · 05/07/2020 19:13

OP, fishyduck is a windup merchant, and not a particularly original one. Don't take it to heart.

billy1966 · 05/07/2020 19:17

Hilarious OP!
The suggestion SIL gets more hours doesn't go down well, yet tapping his brother is the go to solution.

Your money would have gone on maintaining appearances ie...down the drain.

Funny also the way people can get huffy when their requests for loans get turned down.

People like your BIL, never get caught loaning money either...they are cute enough that way though!

LakieLady · 05/07/2020 19:41

Id be interested to know if she knows how much debt they are in thinks that at least the kitchen and one of the cars was paid from from the inheritance....perhaps thats why BIL is desperate for a loan and not debt advice as that would mean her finding out

Me too, I have a rather prurient interest in this. I'd like to know if SIL knows about the investment in the property business that's gone tits up. She might have no idea that a good chunk of this money is now tied up in some property/ies that may not be sold and may lose money if they do, and BIL may be trying to avoid her finding out.

My mate's husband has bankrupt them twice. Both times she had no idea what was going on. The second time, she didn't realise until she filled her car up with petrol and all her cards were declined. He'd taken out more and more credit to keep up appearances and keep it from her.

She now insists on knowing exactly what's going on with their money, businesses etc and checks all the bank and credit card statements regularly.

Original poster
YeahWhatevver · 05/07/2020 20:01

LakieLady

Would actually make a bit of sense. DH's suggestion about SIL hours was met with complete resistance by BIL, him keeping it a secret would be an obvious reason.

We also don't speak directly to SIL (as in chit chat over WhatsApp etc) - for no reason at all, we all get on fine but all communication r.e. Birthday presents for the kids, plans to meet up etc go between DH and BIL. So there's a good chance BIL thinks there's a small liklihood of us mentioning it to her.

We've no intention of getting involved, it's for BIL to come clean but if it is the case then he's not at all the person I thought he was (and not the person DH thought he was either)

OP posts:
PyongyangKipperbang · 05/07/2020 20:18

it's for BIL to come clean but if it is the case then he's not at all the person I thought he was (and not the person DH thought he was either)

The thing is, he was coping, managing, servicing the debts. (This next sentence assumes she knows nothing about how bad things are) So then things start to go awry, no need to worry her, he is on top of it and once they sell the properties things will improve. Then they get a bit worse so he borrows just til the properties sell, then a bit worse so he borrows more..... Then the day comes where he has exhausted all credit options, he cant get out of the property deal and is at risk of redundancy.

Thats a hell of a lot to tell someone who was led to believe, thanks to his impression of being a financial wizard, that everything was peachy. There is a good chance it will end his marriage.

I am not saying he is right no to tell her, but that I can see how he would end up in a situation where he feels he cant.

FizzyGreenWater · 05/07/2020 23:35

if it is the case then he's not at all the person I thought he was

But the person you already know he is is one who wriggles out of paying his debts to his brother and is willing to manipulate even the closest family to extract money. You can, I think, safely bet that IF your SIL is the type to try and curtail his spending/hairbrained schemes, he would lie to her to do so. Absolutely, why not? He lied to your DH about paying back his loan, even when he could afford it.

She's either completely complicit or quite a lot in the dark.

Your BIL isn't an honest person, that's already established, surely?

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 06/07/2020 11:05

We've no intention of getting involved, it's for BIL to come clean but if it is the case then he's not at all the person I thought he was (and not the person DH thought he was either)

I think a number of us would be startled to find out the 'reality' of family members or friends. I always remember Elizabeth Warren saying, many years ago, "You know more people who are bankrupt than are divorced" - it's just that you don't know that about them. (US setting but it holds more widely.)

Or some of us are constantly retaining our counsel when people praise how well someone is doing because we know the reality behind it.

Lots of partners do lie to each other about money and then get into a frantic mess when it all comes tumbling down. Some people have no sense of the real world at all because others constantly clean up after them. As PPs have suggested, it wouldn't be too surprising to learn that the BiL in this case had always previously been rescued by parents.

Fluffycloudland77 · 06/07/2020 11:11

Dh knew a couple where the wife didn’t know the house had been repossessed until the locks got changed by bailiffs. She stood by him.

About 10 years later he left her for another woman.

ChicCroissant · 06/07/2020 12:40

It's not getting any better with each update, I bet there are more debts that the BIL is going to admit to as time goes on - it does sound a very stressful situation for you all but this is down to your BIL putting your DH in an awkward position so if they do fall out (as I predicted in my first response, BIL put you in a no-win situation) it's not down to the actions of you and your DH at all, OP. While I can believe that his wife may not know the full extent of the debts, surely she'd know that they are not really up to a 16K yacht charter holiday?!

BIL has made poor choices in the past, that doesn't mean he can't turn it around in the future though - I hope he does.

Happynow001 · 06/07/2020 15:54

@YeahWhatevver

OP is there anyone else in the family your BIL might touch for a loan who might be grateful for a heads up? I know you and DH are not planning on giving BIL's wife a heads up, but I'm thinking of wider family whose finances would take a big hit if they lent money they couldn't afford?

simonisnotme · 07/07/2020 16:52

Well done your DH for standing his ground
As pp^^ said - give the wider family a heads up that BIL is after money that wont get paid back

londonscalling · 07/07/2020 22:12

With what's going on with the economy, how can you guarantee you or your husband won't lose yours jobs either. You'll need that money then. But regardless, it's still a big no!

londonscalling · 07/07/2020 22:13

With what's going on with the economy, how can you guarantee you or your husband won't lose yours jobs either. You'll need that money then. But regardless, it's still a big no!

londonscalling · 07/07/2020 22:19

If the matter gets brought up again, perhaps you should remind BIL that you can't lend him anymore as he still owes you over £1k from the £4K you lent him previously.

FishyDuck · 07/07/2020 22:42

@happynow001

To be frank, I don't think it would be appropriate for the OP to be telling other family members not to lend money to the BIL.

It is not her money and if a family member feels (rightly IMO) that that they can provide a sum of money to allow the BIL to gradually and sustainably make changes without suffering a dramatic fall in living standards that could shatter the whole family's mental health, who is she to stop them?

Howyiz · 07/07/2020 22:47

I get the feeling you're a one trick pony @FishyDuck Biscuit

Poppinjay · 07/07/2020 23:19

if a family member feels (rightly IMO) that that they can provide a sum of money to allow the BIL to gradually and sustainably make changes without suffering a dramatic fall in living standards that could shatter the whole family's mental health, who is she to stop them?

Like the BIL would have any intention of making sustainable changes and then repaying the money. Everybody needs to know that any 'loan' will be a gift so they can assess the risk to their own situation appropriately.

Are you in a similar position, Fishy? You seem very investing in the BIL getting his hands on the OP's family's money.

Porridgeoat · 07/07/2020 23:28

Suggest BIL releases some of the equity from his own house instead as your cash is tied up and don’t explain yourself.

Porridgeoat · 07/07/2020 23:29

Or he can have a mortgage holiday and live off her wages

Iverunoutofnames · 08/07/2020 00:14

I haven’t read the whole thread but honestly I am in a very similar situation.
DH and BIL earn similar (actually we think BIL much more) and SIL does not work (because she thinks it’s beneath her). They piss money away like no ones business.
2 years ago they also inherited a similar amount of money. BIL went on a massive holiday, bought 2 cars, went out a lot. I don’t know if he bothered to pay off any of his mortgage.
We had already paid of mortgage and we still have all the money tucked away. It’s retirement money for us and we won’t touch it.
Now Covid has happened and he is self employed and keeps going on about financial troubles and bankruptcy.
I’ve made it very clear to DH he isn’t to give him a penny. Because, he won’t be grateful, in fact if he knows we have the money he will suggest we don’t need it and he needs it more. He’s a fuck up with money and giving money won’t cure it, it will just be a waste.
You aren’t responsible for his financial mis-management. Things happen to people. There are occasions you can genuinely help. This isn’t one. Someone who has poor management with money is not a person to give money to. It will be a waste.