WIBU to say no to bailing BIL out?

[YeahWhatevver]

Really struggling to work out what to do.

DH and BIL are relatively close. BIL has never been great with money, definitely lives for the moment. Has in the past had quite a bit of credit card debt and has previously struggled with managing his money. He has (had) a decent job BIL and SIL both work, though SIL is 2 days a week. They have 2 kids.

DH and BIL inherited just under 90k each about 2.5 years ago from their Mother's estate. Nothing was ever discussed about what they were planning to do with it, we put a lot of it into the mortgage or set it aside to put into the mortgage when our fixed term ends (want to a out early repayment fees) and have put some aside for our kids (first cars/bit ot money for college)

Looks like BIL spent most of his - none of our business it's his to use as he wants.

BIL is looking like he'll imminently lose his job. And called up DH asking of he has any of mum's inheritance left as he's in a bit of a spot a figure of £25k seems to have been banded about. Annoyingly DH said yes, we've got quite a bit in savings, so BIL knows we could if we wanted to

DH has previously "loaned" BIL money for it to never be returned fully.

Our family and BIL's family have similar incomes. So it's not like DH has got lucky while BIL has been dealt a bad hand in life.
BIL has a lot bigger house, 2 nice cars lots of personal finance

I can tell DH is protective of his brother and wants to help but I really want to just say no. We've made plans around this money, made sacrifices to be in the financial position we are now and I don't see why we should squander those plans to bail out someone who has failed to take responsibility for themselves.

Problem is, I can see this creating a huge rift.

WIBU to speak to BIL and say no?

It's fine if you like to blow all your own money on an amazing lifestyle. But if the money stops rolling in, you have to be prepared to get rid of expensive cars and downsize. Same with investments, you can take the risk, but be prepared to take the consequences personally, don't expect people not involved in the deal to lose out instead of you.

I agree - @FishyDuck can only be BIL or wife. Nobody else would think this is reasonable.

@YeahWhatevver

*I think you can hugely help your DH here by saying no for both of you.

Normally I would suggest your DH deal with his brother himself, but here I think it preserves the relationship better if you do it. Ask DH to agree first obviously*

Hmm, very good point. DH would owe me big time.....

This is a very good point and this is what I would do too!!

DH is going to help him make an appointment with a financial advisor which we've said we'd pay for. We've also said we'd pay for the survey/media pack conveyancing fees to sell the house (assuming some or all need to be paid up front) on the condition that it's agreed in advance with the solicitor we get it back directly from the solicitor on completion of any sale

No surprise that he refused your DH's direct help - there's probably a lot more he doesn't want you to know - but I like the sound of the above, especially your intent to get the funds back via the solicitor

Because otherwise, once BIL feels you may stump up for "housing costs", it's not hard to guess where that could lead

Anyway it sounds as if it's been dealt with as well as you could; all you can do now is hope he doesn't invent some "emergency" which you've simply got to help with

That is a massively unsustainable lifestyle. So much so that even if you were to give 1-5k as an actual gift, it would be eaten up that very same day by those outgoings, which are unimaginably large. He has to reorganise his life, a handout isn't the answer here.

You and your DH made the right decision. Giving or loaning him £25k would just be kicking the can down the road when he is obviously living a lifestyle he cannot afford. He needs to sort out the property development business, get some debt counselling and probably enter some sort of DMP. He need not necessarily sell his house if he takes that route unless he has lots of secured debt. The cars will have to go though but if he is not working he does not need one. Tell him to go to Money saving expert Debt free wannabe forum for anonymous debt advice.

25k!! If he said £25 probably, but 25k!! Is he mad? No way would I be lending anyone 25k let alone someone who has no idea how to manage money.

The answer is yes.....yes it is absolutely worth causing a rift by saying no....it’s worth 25k plus..as you know he will always come back for more!! (Cheeky sod)

Blimey-if he’s decided to spunk £90k of inheritance plus all of this...
Added to that are the cars (both >50k)
The kitchen
The mortgage
A yacht charter holiday in the med which cost...... Wait for it...... £16k

And wants handouts from you to carry on-he needs to just STOP.

I'm all for giving my family the coat off my back if they are in trouble and need it....

But in this instance.... no. Your BIL fritters money away like short change to keep up with the Jone's and be the big I AM. Sadly you giving him money is just not helping him. He is used to always falling back on hand outs. He HAS to learn to be a grown up and start acting like one and making wise choices. He has debted himself up to the eyeballs for no good reason at all and needs to learn a lesson sadly.

Help him in other ways, obviously you wouldn't see him on the streets, that is different, but it isn't at that level I would have thought

I wouldn't do it

Those saying it will impact his mh, I’d like a Porsche please. It will impact my mental health if you don’t chip in

Lol right? I’ve seen a Fendi bag worth 4K and not having it is really affecting my mental health. Therefore others really should be chipping in to buy it for me if they are decent human beings!! 😆

@fluffycloudland77

Clearly there will have to be lifestyle changes in the BIL's case, but it will be much better for al concerned if they take place in a gradual and sustainable way.

Just turning off the spending taps overnight and being left to a life without things that him and the family have become accustomed to could really damage their mental health.

I think the £25k could be used to effectively 'cushion the blow' and maintain a good lifestyle for the BIL and his family.

Your offer is very generous indeed! Would not give him a penny more than that. I'm sure he refused your h's offer because he's up to his eyeballs in debt. He's lived beyond his means and it needs to stop. Wouldn't be surprised if the house is repossessed or sells for less than he's taken out mortgages on.

I think the £25k could be used to effectively 'cushion the blow' and maintain a good lifestyle for the BIL and his family

He blew through 90k in 2 years! Are you joking? 25k won’t last him 6 months at that rate. You may as well set this money slight and have a bonfire

Stay strong OP... No means NO...

Alight

@FishyDuck and what about the OP? Who will cushion the blow when they don't have savings for their kids colleges and when they have to keep paying their mortgage for longer because of giving the bil money?
Have you missed the bit where they have previously given him money when his finances have been poor and yet he didn't wake up and check his spending habits then either but nor did he repay the money?

Don’t give BIL the money. You have earmarked it for you two and the kids. That’s your priority no BIL

How many times fishy ?

They've already loaned him money he has failed to repay.

How much? When does enough become enough? How much it OPs own future should she give? How hard should she work to ensure her family don't feel the pinch because of the money given? How much of her life is enough to give?

Alternatively... When does an adult become responsible for their own choices?

You are using mental health as an excuse for some ridiculous behaviour. And I find that insulting!

FishyDuck is obviously insane because no-one in their right mind would tip £25k into the bottomless pit that is the BILs finances, and the reasoning that the OPs family should 'cushion the blow' and is somehow responsible for maintaining the lifestyle of a spendthrift who is hurtling towards rock bottom even more bonkers.

Fishy what you are suggesting is akin to having a crate of vodka delivered to the house of an alcoholic, on a daily basis.

That's it! That's why I found it offensive!

OP I believe you and your DH are throughly decent people, however his brother is not.

The fact is the brother is a taker and sorry his wife is to. They both need to face the music get of their arses and take a reality check.

If I lost my job tomorrow I could not go cap in hand to my family, you cut your cloth to suit your means of income. There is to much of this living on the never never and keeping up with the Jones's these days. The BIL and SIL are a prime example of selfish greed and self-entitlement.

Most of us at some time in our life's have lived on the breadline, and there are many many people today doing exactly that. The BIL and SIL need to learn the value of money, and bailing them out is not actually helping but just making them even more selfish.

If they were living in a day to day existence and had no money for food and electricity because the universal credit had been sanctioned for some flimsy excuse it would be different. But it's not the case is it?

The bear faced cheek of ringing your DH up and making enquiries about your joint finances is disgraceful. The BIL and wifey should be utterly ashamed of putting you in this position, but they are takers, without a thought for others.

They got themselves into this position, it's their problem so let them get on with the financial mess they have gotten themselves into.

The sad thing about this is the 90k that they have frittered away was worked hard for and by people who probably never even dreamed of going on a 16k holiday. That really puts it into prospective for me.

The OP's DH has the money available to lend so I would certainly give it to the BIL yo avoid him having to drastically cut costs in a way that could really damage his family's lifestyle and mental health.

I hate the way that the term ‘mental health’ is used on these boards. So many just chuck it into the mix to justify doing just as they please and if they’re thwarted in any way well, they might get upset or cry a bit. But let’s label it ‘mental health’ just to up the emotional blackmail. What bollocks and how insulting to those really struggling with authentic mental health issues.

FishyDuck must be the SIL who wants their family's reality check 'cushioned' by the OP's own financial security. Note she also said give them the £25, no loan.

FFS. BIL/SIL already owe OP and her DH £££. Just no!

I suspect fishyduck is one of those people who borrow money endlessly from family and never pays it back. That would explain her posts and all the justifications about how the OP has to do it "for his mental health" etc. Typical excuses for poor behaviour and borderline financial abuse.

His mental health is his problem and responsibility. He's a grown up, if he can rack up the bloody debt, he can figure out a way to deal with it, him and his wife. Their problem and responsibility. OP's husband is not his brother's keeper.

Emotional blackmail, like, 'oh, think of their mental health, it will be the death of them', absolutely bloody winds me up. Having been on the receiving end of it, and if we'd given into it, we would have lost everything. And the person doing it wouldn't have given a single, solitary damn.