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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

WIBU to say no to bailing BIL out?

578 replies

YeahWhatevver · 03/07/2020 13:31

Really struggling to work out what to do.

DH and BIL are relatively close. BIL has never been great with money, definitely lives for the moment. Has in the past had quite a bit of credit card debt and has previously struggled with managing his money. He has (had) a decent job BIL and SIL both work, though SIL is 2 days a week. They have 2 kids.

DH and BIL inherited just under 90k each about 2.5 years ago from their Mother's estate. Nothing was ever discussed about what they were planning to do with it, we put a lot of it into the mortgage or set it aside to put into the mortgage when our fixed term ends (want to a out early repayment fees) and have put some aside for our kids (first cars/bit ot money for college)

Looks like BIL spent most of his - none of our business it's his to use as he wants.

BIL is looking like he'll imminently lose his job. And called up DH asking of he has any of mum's inheritance left as he's in a bit of a spot a figure of £25k seems to have been banded about. Annoyingly DH said yes, we've got quite a bit in savings, so BIL knows we could if we wanted to

DH has previously "loaned" BIL money for it to never be returned fully.

Our family and BIL's family have similar incomes. So it's not like DH has got lucky while BIL has been dealt a bad hand in life.
BIL has a lot bigger house, 2 nice cars lots of personal finance

I can tell DH is protective of his brother and wants to help but I really want to just say no. We've made plans around this money, made sacrifices to be in the financial position we are now and I don't see why we should squander those plans to bail out someone who has failed to take responsibility for themselves.

Problem is, I can see this creating a huge rift.

WIBU to speak to BIL and say no?

OP posts:
Original poster
YeahWhatevver · 03/07/2020 17:00

They don't own the cars, they're finances so there's no equity to take back from them

OP posts:
PersonaNonGarter · 03/07/2020 17:05

I think you can hugely help your DH here by saying no for both of you.

Normally I would suggest your DH deal with his brother himself, but here I think it preserves the relationship better if you do it. Ask DH to agree first obviously.

You need to send an email/ text saying that you know he has been in touch with DH about cash: You are sympathetic but unfortunately this time there will be no loans will need as you have experience of these arrangements going bad. It is too important to family unity and long term friendship that no-one is put in the position of owing/being owed money. That’s the decision and it is final and comes with love. However, they should let you know if and how you can help in more practical ways.

BarbaraofSeville · 03/07/2020 17:09

Surely if he is about to lose his job he only needs money to cover loss of earning for the time it takes to get a new job? Unless he earns £200k that’s not £25k

If he's something like a pilot, then unfortunately he might not get another role for a year, two or more. As well as coronavirus related fallout, there's Monarch, Flybe and Thomas Cook that have gone bust in the last couple of years, which suggests that there could be a lot of out of work pilots competing for fewer roles than ever before.

And that £25k will only be a few months income, which won't last long when paying a big mortgage, finance for a fancy kitchen, leases on two nice cars, plus credit cards etc.

Is there any chance that SIL can work full time?

FizzyGreenWater · 03/07/2020 17:11

Agree that you have been set up to be the bad guy.

I'd be SO unimpressed with that that I would do exactly what you have outlined: you tell DH he is to go to his brother and say he's thought more deeply and no, he's not going to talk to you about it, the answer is no because there is too much at stake, loaning between families like this has the potential to wreck your relationships.

The thing is, it wouldn't just create huge issues between you and DH, possibly resentment from BIL and SIL anyway (everyone hates being beholden) - it would also be a waste of money - because they wouldn't change! It would just mean that YOUR kids' future funds ended up going the same way as the funds they had for their own kids - down the pan.

People like this never change until they hit rock bottom.

Do them a favour and let them hit that rock bottom before they get any older.

Original poster
YeahWhatevver · 03/07/2020 17:12

*I think you can hugely help your DH here by saying no for both of you.

Normally I would suggest your DH deal with his brother himself, but here I think it preserves the relationship better if you do it. Ask DH to agree first obviously*

Hmm, very good point. DH would owe me big time..... Grin

OP posts:
Dogman · 03/07/2020 17:12

If this was needed as part of root and branch reform of their finances to tide them through until house sale and reduced expenses I would consider it. But it’s a sticking plaster. It won’t change their long term position. It will change yours.

mrscatalano · 03/07/2020 17:13

It would be a big fat no from me. The only way I would even consider it would be if there was a definite way to get the money back.
If they've got equity in the house for example, you could look into securing a charge on the property and have a written agreement. It would have to be a way to force the repayment and protect your money in some way.

But actually, I think it would still be a no. There's only so much you can do to help people before you just end up enabling their behaviour.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 03/07/2020 17:15

They don't own the cars, they're finances so there's no equity to take back from them

Even if there's no equity there, at least giving them back would save on monthly payments though?

BarbaraofSeville · 03/07/2020 17:17

It depends, you can't usually give them back without penalty until you've paid half the value of the finance agreement, which is usually almost at the end of the contract anyway, as the amount of the agreement includes the entire value of the car not just the main contract period.

mbosnz · 03/07/2020 17:20

The other thing about you being the one to say 'no', is that you know that 'no' has definitely and unambiguously been said. (You might even want to say, please don't ask again in the future, because getting the same answer is bound to offend - as is having to give it!)

HavelockVetinari · 03/07/2020 17:22

They need to give back the expensive cars for a start, and apply for the covid mortgage break now and save the repayments for when they actually need the money. Although BIL sounds like the kind of eejit who would have taken the mortgage break even when working and spunked the money on something daft.

Do not give him the money - as a last resort you could lend a bit but insist on a charge being put on BIL's house so if he does end up getting repossessed you'll at least get your money back.

LannieDuck · 03/07/2020 17:22

How much does he still owe you from before?

Can SIL increase her hours?

Original poster
YeahWhatevver · 03/07/2020 17:24

Puzzledandpissedoff

I believe (not sure though) that they can only hand them back with no penalty when they're half way through the contract term.

They're not quite at 1/4 of the way through and so need to pay a hefty fee to get out.

OP posts:
FizzyGreenWater · 03/07/2020 17:24

I think you can hugely help your DH here by saying no for both of you.

Normally I would suggest your DH deal with his brother himself, but here I think it preserves the relationship better if you do it. Ask DH to agree first obviously

Hmm, very good point. DH would owe me big time.....

I couldn't disagree more with this. All you'll do is send BIL the message that DH would have said yes but you stopped him. So not only will BIL indeed resent you, but he'll continue to put pressure on DH. Only this time, it'll be the pressure a manipulative person applies to one he has a little less respect for than he did, because he'll be thinking 'She controls him.'

NO.

For the sake of his relationship with BIL as well as yours, HE must say no. It's his brother, HE must show BIL that HE has decided that HIS family comes first and that's the end of the matter. There's also the element of, you may be married but it was DH's inheritance. If BIL thinks that it's you and no-one else who has stopped him getting access to extra money that belonged to his family not yours in order to save his own house, yes I do think he and his family will resent you in a way they would not feel if DH were to say no.

Plus it would then be the end of the matter and maybe BIL would end up having a bit more respect for DH who will have drawn a firm family boundary.

Really, don't allow yourself to be used like this, it will mean a worse outcome for all relationships as far as I can see.

flirtygirl · 03/07/2020 17:26

You should say no, tel bil that the money is being used and can't be given.

It's earmarked so I would not change my plans especially for someone that feckless., no way woukd I take that chance.

I would if someone had fallen on hard times, not wasted money and if I was sure they would pay me back.

But in your situation, absolutely not, they can sell some items and a car.

Nquartz · 03/07/2020 17:27

@FizzyGreenWater makes sense, please don't let your DH make you the fall guy.

maddening · 03/07/2020 17:28

Tell dh that when his dbro and wife are both working full time plus, even if dbro has to get a job he believes to be "below" him, they are driving 2 bangers and have sold their house and renting, that if they cannot even afford rent on the cheapest rental in the area that you will not see bil or family on the street, but until then bil needs to sort his own shit out.

BlessYourCottonSocks · 03/07/2020 17:30

It's not yours and DH's responsibility to bail out an adult who has made silly choices. He had £45k a couple of years ago.

I'd get DH to say, Sorry, we've discussed it and unfortunately won't be able to help you out. It would fuck up all our own plans.

felixowl · 03/07/2020 17:31

It would have become 'our family's' money.
You know by now the consensus here.
As 'PersonaNonGarter says "you might well be helping your DH by making your 'No Way' very obvious.
Here's hoping you stay strong to maintain your decision and support DH.

jay55 · 03/07/2020 17:32

It's not like that sector has been in amazing health for a good while.
They chose to not put anything away for a rainy day. It isn't like they were living week to week on minimum wage.

BrightYellowDaffodil · 03/07/2020 17:33

He said he'd speak to me

See, I'd see that as DH possibly buying himself some time and not having to give an answer on the spot, so he couldn't be pushed into saying 'yes'. And I wouldn't mind being Bad Cop for £25k!

If absolutely necessary I'd consider a loan of a much smaller sum to tide them over but only if a) it came with a proper agreement and repayment schedule and b) it was on the understanding that there will be no more money.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 03/07/2020 17:34

Interesting about the car finance, OP - I thought the break point was a third of the way through but it may have changed

Anyway I totally agree with FIzzy that this needs to come from both of you, but delivered by your DH ... anything else just invites more manipulation, and since you already feel DH has set you up to look like "the bad guy", I'm afraid I'd worry about what was being done behind my back

InsaneInTheViralMembrane · 03/07/2020 17:34

Habitually living beyond your means means that the 25k will simply service what’s already there, give a month or two’s breathing room - but essentially just kick the ball down the road a few months.

They need a complete “financial reset” (someone used that phrase up thread - it’s great!).

I think I’d discuss with DH that if it looks like they’re seriously sorting their shit out - ie downsizing and handing back keys, that you’d ensure they had a Tesco delivery every week but not tell them upfront iyswim!

InsaneInTheViralMembrane · 03/07/2020 17:37

Ought to add - I used to live like that pre-kids. As soon as I had kids it really fixed my financial fuck-ups!

saraclara · 03/07/2020 17:37

What would he do if you didn't have money saved (wherever that money came from)?
Well that's what he'll have to do, even if you have.

My Godson is a pilot. A lot of the debt he has for his training is in his mortgage. Now he's working a minimum wage job until he can see what's ahead. He's not trying to scrounge from anyone though.

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