To think that people who 'want to switch off' from BLM are the ones who have chips on their shoulders?

[Moomin8]

I use a cloth nappy group on FB. A few days ago someone accidentally (I think, I didn't see it) made an offensive remark.

The next day one of the admins, very sensibly set up a thread for people to post educational resources relating to the BLM movement which encourage us all to think about how we can be a part of the solution rather than the problem. The issue of course, is that a lot of people don't even know that they are contributing to systemic racism.

That was fine until someone posted a comment saying this wasn't nappy related and they just wanted a space for nappies etc. After that it turned into a bit of a bun fight and got quite nasty.

There were only a few people who seemed to have this view but it left me wondering, why would someone complain about something positive that we could all learn from. Cloth nappy communities include people from BAME backgrounds (obviously) and why would you not want to take action against something that could hurt other people?

I don't think every space should be politicized
This.
If there is an offensive remark do what every other FB group does: delete the comment, give a warning to the poster, ban repeat offenders from the group.

The aims of BLM political movement are not aims I would support. Center black trans women, anti capitalism (there are a lot of elements of capitalism i don't agree with and it needs to be controlled but so far we haven't found anything better), disrupt the nuclear family (I don't live in a nuclear family but have no issue with those who choose to)
People mindlessly support political groups without looking beyond a slogan. Its why we have Boris in power. Or why people are shocked with NHS privatisation when they vote for a party fundamentally opposed to state run services

Some POC do want to put their energy into giving people food for thought. One of these was a black friend of mine. She had never spoken to me about her experiences of racism before and I was shocked to hear them. She pointed me in the direction of an article by a white mother who is raising a black son. Certainly it taught me some things I had been unaware of.

How can you ensure that you are being supportive of members of the group, for whom racism is a daily problem if you don't acknowledge their struggles and ask them for help on what to read etc?

I'd say because not every specialist interest group is always an appropriate place for this. The ford cortina appreciation Facebook group isn't the place and neither is the local history Facebook page that someone mentioned.

In the wrong place and with the wrong intentions sometimes it's really inappropriate to make a space to discuss race and BLM. I've seen some horrific comments on Facebook pages, and moderators are not always in a position to make the best call on what can pass and what doesn't.

It's easier and better for some pages to say, no current affairs / politics and keep the discussion to the best place.

@Pikachubaby

It's not about being 'right on' 🙄 dismissive remarks like this annoy me - they are quite insulting.

People mindlessly support political groups without looking beyond a slogan.

Well that's rubbish. Certainly in my case. I see the people who are affected because they do exist.

It's not about being 'right on' 🙄 dismissive remarks like this annoy me - they are quite insulting

If you’ve got the admin of a Cloth nappy FB Page assuming the responsibility to “ educate” its members about the BLM movement then it most definitely is “ right on” - it’s practically the definition of right on. What qualifies him or her to teach anybody anything about it in the first place? What resources are they directing members to? Is it possible they are simply regurgitating the same links to the same organisations and websites that have already been shared a gazillion times over social media in the last few weeks ? It’s incredibly patronising and most definitely “right on”

A lot of the posters here seem to be overlooking that the BLM post was posted in RESPONSE to a racist post. It wasn't posted for no reason or without prompt. If someone littered sites with political agendas with no prompt than that's a different issue, but if an educational thread stems from a comment that needs educating I think that's fine.

[quote Moomin8]@Ygrittesnow

It's rather ironic that you should post this because I have actually seen numerous examples of people who seem to have a problem with the BLM with a tone just like yours - calling people ludicrous, mocking and jeering with an unnecessarily rude and personal tone.

I wonder what it is that triggers this in people?[/quote]
Maybe it's the mass violence and looting, cities burning and heritage being destroyed that triggers people? Just a thought?

@scatterolight for me it's more the lack of critical thought that is required. I resent and reject constantly being told there's something wrong with my thought processes, to educate myself, do better etc. This idea that you can say and do whatever you want to people who engage in wrong think - with wrong think seemingly being just not agreeing... It's as though these ideas and opinions aren't just concepts that people can consider and discuss and decide whether or not to agree or even add nuance but actual, unarguable hand clapping facts and you're a disgusting bigoted racist pariah if you question.

These are the opinions I regularly express elsewhere on MN and am told here on this thread that they're "offensive" 🤷🏼‍♀️

Should the group also discuss issues relating to disabilities, or how single parents are discriminated against, the plea of people who will be expulsed from the UK after Brexit, etc...

Where does it stop? I would run away from such a group. These are not matters known to steer tension that I would want to discuss with strangers. Why not stick to what the group was formed for to discuss?

A lot of the posters here seem to be overlooking that the BLM post was posted in RESPONSE to a racist post

And a lot of posters have pointed out that in most groups anyone whose posts break guidelines gets their comment deleted and potentially banned. That’s enough. That’s what people expect.

I think it's wholly appropriate to reference BLM in response to racist behaviour in the group in order to convey what the moderators deem acceptable.

Separately, I'm wondering how much there is to discuss about cloth nappies? I didn't use them, personally. Am I missing something?

A reminder that racist language will absolutely not be tolerated would have sufficed. That plus perma ban for the racist poster.

BLM in the US is squarely focused on ending police brutality. It's a campaign with clear, measurable and technically achievable aims. If it were the same in the UK, people's reaction to it would be quite different, I think. As it stands, it IS being used as a tiresome soapbox for some very holier-than-thou types to rant about stuff that we can't actually do anything about, often because it happened 200 years ago. No amount of reading recommended books about slavery or sharing meme is going to change what happened.

"Yes but if people are making offensive comments in that space (as can happen in any space) then people do need to be educated."

This assumes people will respond to education. I think on a cloth nappy site, which is quite a narrow niche topic, I'd prefer that it is non political. A robust policy of banning and removing any offensive language would make more sense. If it happens more than once ban the poster. This would keep the site on topic.

Different to mumsnet which has a wide range of issues discussed.

The BLM campaign IS political. It has as some of its aims the destruction of the Western concept of the nuclear family, an end to capitalism and the promotion of 'queer' politics - I quote from the BLM site: "We foster a queer‐affirming network. When we gather, we do so with the intention of freeing ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking, or rather, the belief that all in the world are heterosexual (unless s/he or they disclose otherwise)

I think there's a huge different between campaigning for an end to racism and ensuring that people of colour have equal opportunities, and setting out to dismantle the Western World and its economy and family structures

In any event, no-one is going to react well to being told to 'check their privilege' or 'educate themselves'. It will simply widen the gulf between people

I don't think politics belongs on a nappy forum

Exactly

I think it's inappropriate but I understand the admins feeling they should address it this way when an offensive comment was made. I follow quite a few parenting groups on FB, most of which are american for some reason, and found it draining reading post after post about BLM. I wanted it to "get back to normal" so to speak. It's fine when it was related to the scope of the group - talking to children about racism etc. obviously I fully support that but honestly when it has nothing to do with the topic of the group - as your cloth nappy one doesn't for instance - then it becomes grating and the admins can appear pontificating. I just stayed off FB for a couple of weeks and it's died down now thankfully.

I don't need "educating" I am aware of privilege/structural oppression etc. but I simply don't want to be bombarded with it at every turn, the same as I wouldn't want to be bombarded with every other important issue every time I went online. Selfish perhaps but necessary for self-preservation as consuming too much negativity brings me down.

YABU. People only have so much capacity, I don’t want anymore of mine wasted by BLM. I am interested in hearing from charities and organisations dealing with these issues as well as academic literature on the topic but I don’t have any space for something so superficial. I appreciate that BLM blogs/posts often lead to good resources but you have to wade through so much shit to get there that it’s not worth it.

I agree that politics doesn't belong on a nappy forum.

Personally, having to work much harder at the moment to physically and mentally separate work/childcare/leisure I would have much less patience for my light entertainment groups going political.

Separately, I'm wondering how much there is to discuss about cloth nappies? I didn't use them, personally. Am I missing something?

Honestly, you have no idea! There are people who will pay £170 for one nappy because it has a 'rare' print. People sell, swap and auction things every day.

@EmperorCovidula, wasted? Why do you see it as superficial?

I have noticed over the past few weeks that the whole BLM movement is becoming increasingly divisive and political. There is a lot of confusion about what BLM actually stands for and what being an "anti racist" actually looks like. There seems a strong emphasis on keeping this is single issue movement focussed on race and yet the kind of dramatic social and economic changes that they claim are needed to stamp out racism would be so far reaching that they would impact other groups hugely and potentially exacerbate the problems of other groups.

I just don't see how such a complex and potentially problematic movement can be promoted by a supposedly apolitical forum such as one that focusses on cloth nappies. Of course, the forum should remove any racist content and ban the relevant users but that can be done without affiliating so strongly with the BLM movement.

@Bumpitybumper - isnt it the small things that count towards change? Perhaps I'm naive...

Personally, I don't think it's unreasonable for someone to raise objection to an off-topic post on a single-topic driven community. That person has joined a cloth nappy group, presumably to learn about cloth nappies. Not to "receive an education" on something unrelated. Why are you trying to preach about this topic on a cloth nappy group? Presumably, all babies are the same, in that they all wee and poo, and all need nappies of some sort. Their parents views on race are genuinely irrelevant within the context of nappies.

On this particularly BLM topic, I'm personally of the view that it is down to the individual to seek out their own education if AND ONLY IF they want to. No one ever responds well to anyone trying to educate them on a topic that is irrelevant to the space they are in.

@Moomin8
isnt it the small things that count towards change? Perhaps I'm naive
But BLM promotes an enormous amount of change that extends far beyond stopping people saying racist things. Some of this change is incredibly controversial and it doesn't follow that anybody that is committed to eradicating racism will support all aspects of the BLM movement.

I firmly believe you can be anti racist and not support the UK BLM movement.