To think that people who 'want to switch off' from BLM are the ones who have chips on their shoulders?

[Moomin8]

I use a cloth nappy group on FB. A few days ago someone accidentally (I think, I didn't see it) made an offensive remark.

The next day one of the admins, very sensibly set up a thread for people to post educational resources relating to the BLM movement which encourage us all to think about how we can be a part of the solution rather than the problem. The issue of course, is that a lot of people don't even know that they are contributing to systemic racism.

That was fine until someone posted a comment saying this wasn't nappy related and they just wanted a space for nappies etc. After that it turned into a bit of a bun fight and got quite nasty.

There were only a few people who seemed to have this view but it left me wondering, why would someone complain about something positive that we could all learn from. Cloth nappy communities include people from BAME backgrounds (obviously) and why would you not want to take action against something that could hurt other people?

Check your privilege

And that is such a pointless comment. What does it even mean?

BLM shouldn't be politicised for fucks sake.

I have had the same in fabric groups. The ones I have left had a ban on anything non-fabric related. The ones I have stayed in have tried to be more inclusive. They have made sure they have a fairer representation in moderators and strike off sewers/fabric models.

Ditto with indie toy makers. The ones that I really like have made sure their toys are diverse even before BLM started.

And that is such a pointless comment. What does it even mean?

It's just a sound bite that gives the person using it a little thrill of smug excitement when they get to use it.

The word 'education' is misused horribly. If you don't allow for the possibility that people might read the materials you provide, think about them, and still come to the conclusion that they disagree with some/all of the content, then what you want isn't education but indoctrination.

That's true regardless of what your cause is.

As the group is concerned, someone who posts something racist should have their post deleted, and depending on the moderation policy a ban might follow. Why do the other posters, who presumably haven't made racist posts, need to be lectured about it?

Well. Actually three cloth nappy retailers (at least) have come under fire recently for not handling the BLM issue very well. The worst of whom was Mama Koala. They were found to have had racist policies within their company.

So you see, it does affect all areas of life.

Surely BAME posters would feel more welcome in a group (even nappy groups) if racism was openly tackled not just brushed under the carpet by banning the poster and saying nothing to see here?

MN is quite good at letting MNetters challenge racism instead of just banning posters straightaway.

Check your privilege

And that is such a pointless comment. What does it even mean?

What it means is that since the issue doesn't affect you personally, you are able to make the choice to switch it off.

Yes but if people are making offensive comments in that space (as can happen in any space) then people do need to be educated.

Not sure it's up to you to do it, though. You can object to what's being said without trying to force people to be "educated".

If someone says something that I find offensive in a group I'm in I just say I find it offensive and why. I don't scour the web for educational material. It's facebook.

In one of the FB knitting groups I'm a member of we don't even talk about crochet. We don't talk about jobs, families, financial issues. It's just knitting and the odd dog and cat picture (but only where they are wearing a knit)

There was a post about African Knitting and its influence on patterns and designs throughout history. It was very interesting.

There's a lot of information and opinions on the internet right now. I'm not comfortable being educated by someone who I don't think understands their topic very well. So in my case, Chloe knows a lot about knitting, but isn't the right person to moderate a group that is talking about race. Chloe quite rightly directed those comments to a couple of other groups with wider, more established forums.

It's not 'me' @DomDoesWotHeWants

My point is that I logged in, saw the thread and thought 'oh ok.' And started reading

A minority were irritated by its presence. They could simply have chosen to scroll by...

One nappy company did have to rename a nappy because it was originally named after someone who had racist views so it’s not necessarily off topic even for a nappy group.

In whose opinion was the remark racist? And if it really was then it simply needed to be addressed with that poster.
It’s so patronising to then decide to “educate” everyone in the group when all they want to do is discuss cloth nappies! Who the fuck are you to insist the whole group needs to be educated? It’s like being back at school where the whole class gets punished because one child did something wrong 🙄

What racist policies?

I'm actually curious, surely that's illegal and they can be taken to court

I'm curious what was said as well....

It’s so patronising to then decide to “educate” everyone in the group when all they want to do is discuss cloth nappies!

Maybe admin decided that this was better than just banning someone?

It was the Bumgenius Kipling nappy now I’ve googled who it was if any was interested.

The best online groups clamp down hard on non topic chat, or else all online groups become social sites with polarised arguments in them.

I got a (rightful!) bollocking for mentioning Dominic Cummings on the sewing bee thread on here. Sali Hughes has politely but firmly asked that coronavirus chat is kept off her fb group, as have quite a few moderators of other sites I'm on.

I'm deeply cynical about being 'educated' by online groups anyway. People are constantly being asked to 'educate themselves' and 'do better' on trans issues and that's a steaming pile of crap so I'm very wary of offering myself up for re education.

I'm old enough to read from a variety of sources and form my own opinions.

I'm in a few gardening facebook groups and tbh it does annoy me that people have been quarrelling about blm on them rather than just talking about their roses. I joined those groups to partake in gardening discussions not anything else, I would feel the same way if they were talking about cloth nappies instead of roses.

What racist policies?

Mama Koala released prints to support the BLM movement but didn't donate any of the proceeds to the movement. When people of colour pointed this out, they were blocked from the page. They were also found to have treated POC differently - something about charging them more money for services or something

@TARSCOUT

Ban the racist poster. Tell members this person has been banned. Remind people the sole purpose of the group. Provide a link to appropriate advice page. Turn off commenting. Back to cloths. Sometimes people just want to talk about nappies/dogs/plants, let them be.

This

Surely if you don’t want to read the thread on #BLM in the group then you just don’t read it

There is a balance that can be struck.

I can understand why some people may just want to discuss cloth nappies. People with mental health difficulties may find it particularly difficult to engage in wider discussions. People from BME backgrounds may also wish to switch off. Things are very full on for people at the moment.

As other posters have highlighted, people may be turned off by the amount of coverage the BLM movement has generated.

Some individuals may not yet have become aware of what systemic racism is. The may be aware, but hold prejudiced views. They may well be racist.

Racism should be addressed when encountered. This seems to have happened.

However well meaning, it’s not the role of admins and members on a group like this to attempt to provide training on Equality for members. This could build further resentment. If there is a separate thread for this, I actually don’t see the problem as people can choose to participate or not. ( although then it will likely be an echo chamber).

You sound really passionate, as many people are right now. It’s also important to keep things in perspective, take a step back and play the long game when fighting for change.

I’ve noticed people ( including myself) being reactionary at the present moment, and that leads to disagreement rather than discussion. People get frustrated when others don’t view the world they way they do, and lash out. That doesn’t challenge racism, it becomes too personal.

I’ve spent a bit of time reflecting, and I think that little bits and pieces of awareness raising, in a variety of contexts, like the pp spoke of on the breastfeeding group are likely to be more effective.

One nappy company did have to rename a nappy because it was originally named after someone who had racist views so it’s not necessarily off topic even for a nappy group.

And this is where the likes of @Proudboomer and @YgritteSnow disappear without once acknowledging the racism in the group. 👏👏

I also believe that it’s important to switch off every now and again. It’s not about privilege, it’s about self care and preservation.

It also helps build resilience and goes some way to actually enable people to tackle issues of injustice in society, rather than just sharing links and signing the petition de jour.

@LudaMusser are you seriously going to say because there has been violence and looting at some US protests this totally invalidates the fact that black people have human rights? Wow how ignorant, some people are always trying to deflect from a valid argument.