to hate what Brexiters have done

[mrsmootoo]

I know this has been done before, but knowing that we are now likely on course for a No Deal Brexit in the midst of a pandemic I am so angry and upset about what Brexiters voted for. I'll forgive any who were conned and now think better of it, but I cannot get over the loss of Freedom of Movement to live and work in the EU - not so much for me, but for my children - and the way the UK is sliding in international standing economically and in attracting doctors, nurses, scientists etc. (I know from before that Leavers don't care what I think, but just had to post).

I believe the "Cameron came back with nothing" has been debunked, he got almost all he asked for.
The huge problem was he didn't ask for very much.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35622105

Only on benefits did he have to compromise but even then, not by much.

@Disquieted1 the UK was the EU for decades as was every other country who was a member. The EU was used as a political fall guy for decades. The various Governments of the UK should have been clearer about the benifits of being a member state of the EU, but by doing so the public may have realised that the vast majority of the issues they faced were down the the Government and not the EU.

@Goosefoot I don't completely disagree with you with regards Globalism. However there are countries in the EU where the citizens have a far better quality of life in many respects, where it almost appears that the Governments see it as their responsibility to ensure this quality of life continues. It has felt very much like a race to the bottom in the UK, none of which was as a result of our membership of the EU.

Pisspotical the chance to kick the Metropolitan elite firmly in the teeth (metaphorically), were my motives.
The irony of expecting Metropolitan elites like Johnson, Gove, Rees-Mogg, et al to deliver anything that will bring improvement to 'downtrodden' communities is beyond parody. The Tories didn't give a shit when they decimated communities like yours. Do you think you'll be their priority now?
Economically, I doubt there will be any positives.
Economically? How about socially? You think there will be positives there?

@Parker231

Boris Johnson's government has admitted that it will erect Brexit border posts with Northern Ireland after the prime minister previously insisted it would never do so. The UK prime minister said before last year's general election that no such posts would ever be created. "There's no question of there being checks on goods going NI/GB or GB/NI," Johnson said in December. Johnson told Northern Irish businesses that they should throw customs forms in the bin. The UK government will now construct three border posts at Northern Irish ports.

And in doing so break the terms of the Good Friday Agreement. Something the US Congress (as one stakeholder) has warned won't be acceptable.

The UK wants to have its own independent trade policy, which will be incompatible with the SM, border checks have to happen.

US isn't going to care, they have far bigger issues now and an election coming up.

@InOutofmymind

The UK wants to have its own independent trade policy, which will be incompatible with the SM, border checks have to happen.

US isn't going to care, they have far bigger issues now and an election coming up.

You don't go around breaking treaties because they are inconvenient. Not if you want to make more anyway.

US Congress has to approve all trade deals.

suzeyshoes that's really sad that people in your community are dying but can you tell me in what way they are dying as a direct result of brexit?

I don't know about the above posters community but I can name a few people who have died as a direct result of Brexit.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/woman-kills-herself-because-fears-19861082

dailynewshungary.com/hungarian-woman-committed-suicide-brexit-uk/

www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/18103679.lithuanian-woman-didnt-feel-welcome-brexit-committed-suicide-inquest-hears/

www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2016/12/02/british-pensioner-anxious-over-brexit-commits-suicide-just-weeks-after-referendum-result/

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/05/woman-found-dead-in-bristol-feared-deportation-after-brexit-vote

This is not just a few isolated cases, an increase in suicide has been associated with Brexit.

academic.oup.com/eurpub/article/29/Supplement_4/ckz185.268/5624339

There of course also Lyra Kckee, killed by the new IRA, Jo Cox, killed days before the referendum by a man shouting Britain First. I have little doubt these women would still be alive if it wasn't for race hatred and sectarian prejudice stirred up by the referendum and Brexit.

These numbers (although every one tragic) pales into insignificance compared to the 100,000+ deaths associated with Tory austerity of the last ten years.

As I've said before though, none of this will move Brexit voters even a fraction of a percentage away from Brexit. I think YouGov did a poll a couple of years ago showing that Brexit voters will see the break up of the UK and their own adult children losing their livelihoods before giving up Brexit. Brexit seems to be the most important thing in their lives and they will sacrifice ANYTHING for it. I just don't understand why? I don't think I ever will.

By November the election will be over. If Trump doesn't win the issue will not certainly have gone away. Who knows what will happen if Trump wins again, since he is busy tearing up the rule books?

@Peregrina

I read a very interesting article about Trump a while ago.

www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/6/3/21257133/trump-2020-election-meltdown-lawrence-douglas?fbclid=IwAR2idgEx-a-ljr3p6MrZ3StdIyg3yhQhz-FNWATqPr5tkLKXG1tdqjOy7Tk

You don't go around breaking treaties because they are inconvenient. Not if you want to make more anyway

As we diverge from SM rules, there has to be border checks, there is no other way, the EU will not want goods and foods they don't approve off entering europe via the ROI

US Congress has to approve all trade deals

UK is about to find that getting trade deals is going to prove extremely difficult, unless they want Australian style ones aka as trading WTO terms.

We are a small fish and about to become even smaller.

I fully expect Johnson to announce with Great Fanfare - We've got a deal, an Australian deal.

How much would it have cost to retain the power to do so, even if you didn't use it?

@DdraigGoch, I don’t really understand the question. All EU countries were allowed to deport migrants from other EU countries who hadn’t found work within three months of arriving. It was a reciprocal agreement, not some kind of special power sold to us by the EU.

You don't go around breaking treaties because they are inconvenient. Not if you want to make more anyway

One difference I think between me and leave voters is that actually I quite like international law. I would be happy to see more international law, especially on things like the environment, tax avoidance, worker rights, human rights and safety standards. Better that in my book than each country just doing whatever they want and the inevitable race to the bottom. How people at the bottom think ripping up international rules and minimum standards is going to benefit them is beyond me.

I voted Remain, but then there wasn't an emergency budget as the Chancellor said there would be. Interest rates went down rather than up contrary to what the Governor of the Bank of England said. Unemployment fell rather than increasing by 500,000 as the treasury said it would. All of these were just for voting to leave not the act of leaving. There hasn't been an exodus from the City, Goldman Sachs said that they would leave London, they've built a billion pound HQ. Numerous multinationals that claimed they would leave the UK have since spent money and committed to staying. Since the voye I properly read up on EU and I've gone from an unenthusiastic remainer to an enthusiastic leaver. I think we will benefit as economically and socially.

What saddens me is utter refusal of some people and organisations to accept the result. They don't need to be happy about it but they should accept that since 2015 the we've had a referendum, 3 GE and a European Parliamentary election and the party that was eurosceptic won. Going back the Lib-Dems went into government on a manifesto of an in out referendum, in 2005 Tony Blair promised a referendum on the European Constitution Treaty, when France and the Netherlands rejected it by referendum it was renamed the Lisbon Treaty and no further referendums were held. The referendum was a long time coming, all 3 major parties promised it needs to be implemented.

@Schrodingersbox can you explain how we ( by we I presume you mean the entire population ) will benefit economically ?

There was no emergency budget because Cameron, despite saying that he would stay to implement the result, immediately did a runner. Osborne went too. Who knows what Osborne would have done if Cameron had kept his word?

The result has been accepted - the UK has left. However, the Brexit faction didn't shut up after the 1975 referendum so I see no reason why people who think the result and the way it is being implemented is a potential disaster should shut up.

We haven't seen an exodus yet, because we are in a transition stage. We need to review that this time next year.

In the EU elections, the pro Remain parties won as many seats as the Brexit party did - it's just that their vote was split between LibDem, SNP, Green and an NI Alliance MEP.

We haven't yet seen any economic or social benefits that I can see. Some of the lack of economic benefit is to do with Covid- but that excuse will only last so long.

How people at the bottom think ripping up international rules and minimum standards is going to benefit them is beyond me.

I’ll sound like a typical lefty but I think the press bear a lot of responsibility for this. People have been told for years that human rights imposed by Brussels are mainly for the benefit of criminals and terrorists, and think international law stops us having our own sentencing guidelines etc.

I’ve been shocked to see lots and lots of people writing online that they simply don’t believe that employment law etc can be ripped up after Brexit. People think things ‘can’t get any worse’, that things like the NHS, maternity leave are set in stone and can’t be taken away. I don’t know why they think the UK govt will want to uphold employment rights & standards that cost businesses money if they don’t have to.

People are in for a shock.

I have yet to hear a cohesive answer from anyone as to what real benefits leaving the EU actually brings- what freedoms are they actually getting now we have left and how has the EU personally ruined their everyday lives. I'm staunchly against the leave to vote.

Soundbites, regurgitated statements is all I get, no critical thinking whatsoever. I still think it's a colour issue and so I cannot wait for the reaction of some voters who have constantly spat out "our borders!but we get to choose who comes in and who doesn't- we want high skilled workers not some random from the EU" when they finally see that all those high skilled workers that they want, that we need, that we "get to choose", all the extra medical doctors, engineers and other high skilled jobs are coming from Africa, South America as well as South Asian countries and the Middle East. They won't be coming from Australia, New Zealand and Canada- why the hell would they now?

We do not have the skillset here and will not for decades to plug demand and industry gaps and retain any youngsters that qualify who have btw, probably voted to stay in the EU and may now leave anyway because of the added burden of debt on their shoulders coming from the covid crisis so we will see a huge influx of non whites. Bring it on- I'll have my popcorn ready!

Add the promise of residency to 3 million from Hong Kong to the mix.

Good spot, Prestonsouthend, I think it is just that. Another vehicle for the OP to spark another bile-filled rant.

Pathetic!

Numerous multinationals that claimed they would leave the UK have since spent money and committed to staying

A lot of people on mumsnet claimed they’d leave the country if Leave won - I’d be interested to know how many did.

There’s still time. More firms will go. People will certainly move for work if they need to. I know people who have already moved from the UK - but they were ‘foreigners’. It’s very sad.

I would have done if I wasn’t too old. If I was 30 years younger I’d have shaken the dust of the UK off my feet as soon as the result was announced. As it is I just comfort myself that I’m closer to the end of my life than the beginning.

We are leaving the UK for Canada as a result of Brexit. DT’s have completed Uni - DD has a job in Brussels and DS is doing his Masters this autumn (hopefully). If it hadn’t been for Covid we would have been house hunting now.