to hate what Brexiters have done

[mrsmootoo]

I know this has been done before, but knowing that we are now likely on course for a No Deal Brexit in the midst of a pandemic I am so angry and upset about what Brexiters voted for. I'll forgive any who were conned and now think better of it, but I cannot get over the loss of Freedom of Movement to live and work in the EU - not so much for me, but for my children - and the way the UK is sliding in international standing economically and in attracting doctors, nurses, scientists etc. (I know from before that Leavers don't care what I think, but just had to post).

@darkcaramel

But they did.

Someone who did not vote at all cannot have their position assumed. The only assumption we can make is that they were happy to go with majority rule.

We can’t make any assumption. Nobody knows what people who don’t vote want. Which is why you should stop insisting the majority voted for Brexit when 37% of the population did and for the Tories in December when 30% did.

The people who have bought and converted the properties in my mum's street are buy-to-let investors, who are hacked off by the sh*it interest rates available and smart enough to see where they can invest to make a return on their savings to fund their retirement. Many of them are builders, venturing into property development.

We could be categorised as fence sitters; and would prefer a gentle, friendly trading relationship with the EU, rather than one that is driven hard by politics and nationality. Not EU enthusiasts, nor northern, and hopefully not thick, although only only of us has PG qualifications, but self-employed small-town entrepreneurs, marketing a very specialist service around the world. Not big enough to want to have to employ a ft compliance person but successful enough to be asked to pay a substantial amount of tax each year. Racism, which is the easy cheap accusation fired off around MN, has st*ff all relevance. Reading a CV from a qualified engineer with relevant experience, we would take it seriously because it is really tough to find the people we need to grow, and we are a little too small to afford a big enough apprentice programme, where you need to expect to lose more than 60% of the people you train to competitors.

In that case we need to either make voting compulsory or to have an unelected head of state, because we either accept the majority view of the people who voted or endlessly quibble about the views of those who did not. FWIW I suspect there would have been a higher lean towards brexit had voting been compulsory. And if not and the same people felt strongly that they wished to remain, they had their chance in December and did not take it.

@darkcaramel

In that case we need to either make voting compulsory or to have an unelected head of state, because we either accept the majority view of the people who voted or endlessly quibble about the views of those who did not. FWIW I suspect there would have been a higher lean towards brexit had voting been compulsory. And if not and the same people felt strongly that they wished to remain, they had their chance in December and did not take it.

We already have an unelected head of state. She’s called the Queen.

Nothing was going to change last December, whoever you voted for, because there was no party even promising a second referendum, let alone to reverse the results of the one in 2016.

Yes, although neither Brexit nor the current govt won with an outright majority of votes in terms of the whole electorate, they did win. For me the GE was confirmation that people really wanted Brexit and made me much more reconciled to it as a truly ‘democratic’ choice, whereas the referendum result was so narrow, and so clearly swung by lies, that it was hard to accept. I vehemently disagree with what people were voting for, but they did vote for it.

Nothing was going to change last December, whoever you voted for, because there was no party even promising a second referendum, let alone to reverse the results of the one in 2016

Also I thought the Libdems were going to reverse the referendum? Or at least offer another referendum.

We are a self governing independent nation, always were.
@larrythelurker

You said it! Of course we were. Can you imagine telling France or Germany that they're not independent?

Do you know how many laws EU 'imposed' on us? Google it. How many times we had to accept something we weren't happy with? Whereas now to do any deal with any country, we'll be bending over backwards - to US probably. And as EU is currently pointing out No Deal Brexit will be a lot worse for us than for them. 'Easiest deal in history'. They were lying to you.....

A lot of really well considered comments on here from Brexit supporters, compared to the same old same old trotted out by Remainers.
Fucking hilarious.

The Lib Dems offered a second referendum and I’m sure Labour did too.

People would have voted for this if they wanted it.

The queen as head of state is neither here nor there as the point is that she is politically neutral. If voting is genuinely as unimportant as you believe it to be, just get a dictator up there and have done with it.

@TornadoOfSouls

Yes, although neither Brexit nor the current govt won with an outright majority of votes in terms of the whole electorate, they did win. For me the GE was confirmation that people really wanted Brexit and made me much more reconciled to it as a truly ‘democratic’ choice, whereas the referendum result was so narrow, and so clearly swung by lies, that it was hard to accept. I vehemently disagree with what people were voting for, but they did vote for it.

The GE was massively complicated by the fact that the LibDems made a big mistake in saying they would overturn the result - not democratic. And by the fact that Corbyn made Labour unelectable. Many people voted for Johnson for reasons that were nothing to do with Brexit - yet he and the hard Brexiters claim they now have a mandate for something which was never discussed by the Leave campaign, eg leaving Single Market etc. There is footage of Gove saying basically no UK or EU citizen's life will change at all.

Oh come on mrs, the whole Tory election catchphrase was to get brexit done!

@Alsohuman

37% of the population eligible to vote put their cross next to leave in the referendum. So not the majority of the population at all, quite the reverse.

Except the people who voted, who are the only ones who got counted.

Nothing was going to change last December, whoever you voted for, because there was no party even promising a second referendum, let alone to reverse the results of the one in 2016

Labour "promises to renegotiate a new Brexit deal within three months, based on a new UK-EU customs union and close EU single market alignment. It would also give EU nationals living and working in the UK the automatic right to stay.That deal would then be put to a legally-binding referendum within six months, alongside the option to remain in the EU."

^"Labour wants to appeal to both Leavers and Remainers and to give the people the final say. It would implement the referendum result immediately."%

www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-5050141

Would like to hear what the Brexit positives are from those who voted in favour.

A reasonable request I think.

Were you brainwashed or have you thought it through yourselves. It's a genuine question.

Just as remainders can list the negatives, for Brexiteers what are the positives?

The Lib Dems offered a second referendum and I’m sure Labour did too

Yes, since according to a number of posters the majority now want to stay in the EU, why didn’t the majority vote for the Lib Dems as they were the pro remain party?

@Andante57

Nothing was going to change last December, whoever you voted for, because there was no party even promising a second referendum, let alone to reverse the results of the one in 2016

Also I thought the Libdems were going to reverse the referendum? Or at least offer another referendum.

Yes but Jo Swinson - need I say more?

The disaster of a no deal Brexit on top of the Covid damage, the UK will not recover for more than a generation. The UK is going to be poor in so many ways compared to other EU countries.

Sweeping Statement Alert but IMO most people voted Brexit because they didn't want foreigners (for that read refugees and economic migrants) coming over here.

And now Boris has invited 3million Hong King citizens over.

I'm a through and through Remainer. I find this hilarious. Why hasn't it been picked up by anyone?

Why hasn't it been picked up by anyone?

Because it doesn’t suit their agenda.

Yes but Jo Swinson - need I say more?

It can’t just be that. There were plenty of people on mn saying before the election that Boris was the worst leader the Tories had ever had.

It was exactly that for me. I wouldn’t have spoilt my paper if Swinson and Corbyn weren’t so unutterably awful.

@Itinerary

YABU.

Being able to live and work in other countries (anywhere, not just the EU) is still possible, just as it always has been. The process will be different now, but comparable to other independent countries.

The UK is overpopulated, with several times what the sustainable population (about 17 million) would be. As an independent country we can still choose to open our doors to genuine refugees, medical professionals and anyone else. But these decisions will be ours to make independently.

The economy and industry are adapting well and confidence is building, The EU's economy certainly isn't perfect. Certainly the way they've treated countries such as Greece who've fallen on hard times (after persuading them to join the EU with assurances about how any burdens would be shared etc) are questionable.

I understand you feel angry, bitter and unforgiving. I'm sad to hear this, but Brexit voters chose what they genuinely felt best. We've left the EU, are coming to the end of the transition and now its time to move forward.

It will be much harder to live and work in the European countries. Those with good qualifications and certain skill sets will have a higher chance but for many it will no longer be possible. Likewise retiring in the sun will be harder. Those with money will find it easier.

OP, I feel the same as you.

mrsmootoo if voters didn’t want Brexit they had no business voting Conservative. I understand the distaste for Labour under Corbyn (I largely share it) but nobody put a gun to their head and forced them to vote Conservative. The whole election was about Brexit - the Tories had nothing else to offer.

@Parker231

The disaster of a no deal Brexit on top of the Covid damage, the UK will not recover for more than a generation. The UK is going to be poor in so many ways compared to other EU countries.

Yes, I think UK is going to steadily decline over the coming decade :(

Still so much fucking whining about it. I was a very staunch remainer but 4 years on, whether you're still furious about it or not, it's happening. I don't care if your kids can go and work in the EU when they get older. I care about more immediate concerns, such as trade deals now and the nhs. Such a waste of energy to still be raging about the "stupid idiots" who voted for brexit. Everyone had their own reasons for their vote. Who are you to say which was right and wrong?