To think it’s dumb that international holidays are being encouraged in the middle of a pandemic

[Redolent]

AIBU to think is probably the part of the coronavirus pandemic that will lead to WTF reactions in future history books? A world clinging desperately to its globalized ways and unwilling to countenance altering them even in the midst of a crisis like this.

European countries have just gone through months of brutal economic and social lockdowns, with the goal of suppressing the virus. They’ve just experienced, at a huge cost, what it’s like to have the virus slowly and imperceptibly land within their borders via air travel.

And yet, just as the virus starts circulating at low levels, they all decide to open up their borders to each other again, in these supposedly safe ‘air corridors’. Enroute to their destinations, their citizens flock to public transport, then to busy airports and planes, where they sit for hours in the midst of other passengers, then on to their destinations, where they mix with other citizens coming in from all over the world too, in social and alcohol-fuelled conditions. In the meantime, governments - like the UK - have vowed that any outbreaks in other countries will mean that returning tourists may have to suddenly quarantine for two weeks upon their return home. It’s a panicked and volatile strategy, subject to a monitoring of the spread of the virus in multiple other countries. Of course it’s bound to go wrong.

TLDR: close the borders. Internationalism can wait.

Also, from the UK perspective, why now quarantine people coming from lower risk countries if they have decided to take the risk of coming here? Why not take their contact details for tracking and tracing where necessary, instead?

MarshaBradyo - the bigger picture is that each country makes its own risk calculation. Why do you think you are better at the bigger picture than they are?

Are you more clever than Spain?

I find it interesting. The WHO’s reaction to borders at the beginning. Taiwan making a different choice. Lockdown causing huge economic damage to only be undone later with travel encouraged.

I know countries are at an impasse economically so choices around it may be sub optimal. I don’t think I know better that’s the point, I like talking about it because it’s a way to think about it. I always find it vastly more interesting when people move on from it’s my personal choice, because I can, but hey it’s not for everyone. Obviously some find it boring. That’s fine I’ve typed enough!

Lol x post. Yes I beat then in a spelling bee.

Spain is a hard case. Need us, but I feel for them after the severe first wave.

But what if you have already booked that holiday pre-Covid? If you have booked to travel somewhere where borders are open and there is no quarantine needed you aren't going to get money back which you've already paid out for flights/accommodation etc

Sure we could just write the £1500 off and stay at home, but what if this is life for the long term? Aren't we supposed to be learning to live with the virus?

I am generally fairly cautious and haven't been out and about too much where there are likely to be crowds so far so am quite wary of travelling myself but my family is really keen to go. Our holiday isn't until the end of September so we have a couple of months to see what the situation is nearer the time.

planes are not excluded, they are just lower risk than other enclosed spaces people are still allowed to use/are about to be allowed to do - eg getting the train to holiday in Cornwall, going to the cinema

They aren't lower risk than other enclosed spaces because people are more likely to go on planes when they are not well than they are to go to the cinema etc. if they have invested much more money in a holiday than they will have on the cinema ticket and are far less likely to not go if ill especially when there's no insurance for many people. The same applies when people get to the destination. Although the country itself may have relatively fewer cases of coronavirus than the UK the hotel you're staying in will have a high risk of having someone who is infected being there especially if there are loads of people staying there from the UK.

But what if you have already booked that holiday pre-Covid? If you have booked to travel somewhere where borders are open and there is no quarantine needed you aren't going to get money back which you've already paid out for flights/accommodation etc

I can understand why you would still go if you have paid and can't get your money back. I don't think anyone's criticised people in that situation. They are criticising those who are currently booking holidays.

mrpumblechook - tbh, I find it bizarre you think someone at this point in the pandemic would be more willing to risk travelling overseas while feeling unwell, knowing their travel insurance is unlikely to cover them, than they would be to get on the train to their expensive Cornwall holiday while feeling unwell (good old NHS...), or just risk a trip to the cinema while feeling a bit under the weather. Besides, they will have temperature checks and screening questions at the airport, maybe even be tested at their destination - unlikely to be the case for a trip to the cinema or getting on the train.

I agree.

Playgrounds aren't open for children yet the travel ban may be lifted on the 5th????????

Just cancelled our holiday - not prepared to take the risk of airport and plane, however seems like Europe has better control of their beaches than England. What a disgrace Bournemouth was left in. An embarrassment to this country that's for sure!

Glitter7 - I thought playgrounds were opening this weekend?

@makingmammaries Those are the local rules pertaining in Belgium at present. He hopes to go to France on holiday if restrictions are lifted in mid July. He has to get various pieces of paper signed by various senior military bods if he wishes to travel for medical purposes back to UK, so papers needed for Belgium and France.

The Swiss/French border will different to the Belgian/French border, especially as Belgium had real problems, and db lives in a COVID hotspot.

tbh, I find it bizarre you think someone at this point in the pandemic would be more willing to risk travelling overseas while feeling unwell, knowing their travel insurance is unlikely to cover them, than they would be to get on the train to their expensive Cornwall holiday while feeling unwell (good old NHS...), or just risk a trip to the cinema while feeling a bit under the weather.

You think it bizarre that I think someone would be willing to loose the money they spent cinema tickets (assuming they had even bought them in advance) if they feel a bit ill compared with an entire holiday that cost them thousands of pounds? Seriously?

Maybe they were, someone else also told me this but the fact is for months they've been closed, for months children have been off school. If another CV rise happens, recent history will repeat itself.

I love our family summer hols but this year having to cancel our family holiday has been a hard decision, because we'd be able to isolate easily but do we want to risk catching it at the airport or on the flight. NO! My two children have both had Punmonia (spelt incorrectly l think,) in last 12 months. My eldest in hospital for over a week last June. I know they could catch CV here but personally for me, I'd prefer to stay in England incase we need to seek medical attention because English is my first language and I just feel more secure. I totally see why some people may feel they need to get away though. It just personal opinion but a holiday here or abroad is not for us this year - especially how we've all seen the beaches being left here. It's just so embarrassing!

We'll be having a home holiday where we live.

Yes, seriously. Your view of risk is bizarre. Plenty of people go to the cinema feeling a bit under the weather. It’s only too easy to tell yourself it’s probably not covid 19 when you’ll only be out for 3 hours and you don’t want to let the kids down or lose the £60 you spent on tickets just because of a little tiny temperature/sore throat/tickly cough when you are so close to home. Parents are already thinking that way when dropping their kids off at school at the moment, and reacting crossly when turned away because their child has a temperature or cough. Not so easy to behave like that when you think you might be quarantined in your country of destination at your own expense when you are caught with a temperature on arrival, only to go downhill rapidly and need hospitalisation overseas but not be covered for covid 19 on your insurance policy and not to have enough money to cover your extended stay. Why on earth do you think someone wouldn’t be bothered about losing the cost of cinema tickets when they can guarantee they’d still have a good time at the cinema and not personally end up in the shit if they are mad enough to fly overseas at the moment, somehow evading all screening checks, while actually feeling ill?

Coronavirus is contagious for a few days before symptoms show. It can also be very mild or completely asymptomatic. Whether you feel well or not isn’t really relevant. It’s still absolutely raging out of control in so much of the world. As soon as you allow international air travel to resume, no matter how careful they are, it will have a resurgence. If you go on holiday and get sick, it’s not just you who is affected, it’s all those around you when you get back to the UK. Your neighbors, your family, your coworkers. It’s crap, but it’s still too soon to be planning holidays yet.

Im fine with lifting lockdown, we really have no choice,poverty kills to.and as a single person living alone ive had enough of not socialisìng.

But allowing international travel seems mad,we can see how it spread before.surely keeping local when lifting restrictions is much more sensible.Im not sure if even holidays in UK should go ahead.Surely this year people could just stay local,its safer.I live in an area of UK with low cases,i want it to stay that way.

1. their choice
2. some of us have ALL of our family members abroad. It’s not about a bloody holiday.

@FinallyRelief

SC gite here and a cabin on the ferry - fingers crossed it's not a rough crossing!

Exactly the same here :)

I still can't get over the fact that in the new wedding "rules" announced today, a father can't walk his daughter down the isle arm in arm, but strangers can virtually touch in a plane. Bizarre.

some of us have ALL of our family members abroad. It’s not about a bloody holiday.

I live in the southern hemisphere and there are a lot of people who have moved here from Europe, Canada, USA, Africa etc. They don't see their families every year, some only see them every few years, seemingly without trauma. Why can't people just wait until things settle down before travelling internationally? You aren't being asked to wait forever.

Yeah, it’s fucking mental. I can’t believe the number of people saying they’ll actually go abroad in the midst of all of this.

YANBU. I can't believe countries like Spain are allowing Brits to enter when England still has many cases and given the last couple of weeks of crowds etc.

I live in Thailand and we have just opened borders to people entering for limited reasons, but EVERYONE entering has to quarantine at a state-sanctioned hotel and it is strictly enforced. We have had ZERO recorded cases of locally contracted COVID for over a month, but a few most days have sprung up in quarantine. Not a problem... because these people are safely quarantined.

Tourists are currently not permitted to enter but when they start coming, I think the plan is initially that they must also quarantine.

On a personal level I'm gutted - I was due to visit home for the first time in 2 years and I have a new baby to introduce to family and friends. My mum is so sad that I won't go back and that, for now, she is unable to come here.

But I am so pleased that the government is being strict on this. Domestic tourism is being heavily encouraged now after a period of banning inter-provincial travel with all hotels closed to newcomers.

I would hate for us to open the borders and then be back in lockdown a few months from now. If we keep going as we are, schools should hopefully be back to normal before Christmas (they are open now but with strict rules in place, masks at all times etc, so not ideal but at least they are operational).