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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think it’s dumb that international holidays are being encouraged in the middle of a pandemic

730 replies

Redolent · 27/06/2020 23:09

AIBU to think is probably the part of the coronavirus pandemic that will lead to WTF reactions in future history books? A world clinging desperately to its globalized ways and unwilling to countenance altering them even in the midst of a crisis like this.

European countries have just gone through months of brutal economic and social lockdowns, with the goal of suppressing the virus. They’ve just experienced, at a huge cost, what it’s like to have the virus slowly and imperceptibly land within their borders via air travel.

And yet, just as the virus starts circulating at low levels, they all decide to open up their borders to each other again, in these supposedly safe ‘air corridors’. Enroute to their destinations, their citizens flock to public transport, then to busy airports and planes, where they sit for hours in the midst of other passengers, then on to their destinations, where they mix with other citizens coming in from all over the world too, in social and alcohol-fuelled conditions. In the meantime, governments - like the UK - have vowed that any outbreaks in other countries will mean that returning tourists may have to suddenly quarantine for two weeks upon their return home. It’s a panicked and volatile strategy, subject to a monitoring of the spread of the virus in multiple other countries. Of course it’s bound to go wrong.

TLDR: close the borders. Internationalism can wait.

OP posts:
ChardonnaysPetDragon · 29/06/2020 17:37

People spread the infection. If people stopped mixing the infection stops.

Absolutely. Limit air travel, limit the spread of infection.

mrpumblechook · 29/06/2020 17:39

see my point that the evidence does not point towards high levels of transmission on flights where people were sitting close to each other for hours. As for clusters of cabin crew - they do socialise together at their destination, so that too points to the greatest risk being at the destination, not in the flight.

People haven't been sitting close together on flights for the last three months so there wouldn't be evidence. We know that coronavirus spreads when people sit close together and that will happen on planes because social distancing is impossible. We also know that if people have spend a lot of money on a holiday that many will travel if feeling ill especially if their travel insurance won't cover cancellation.

notimagain · 29/06/2020 17:40

Agree, the aviation industry is always the golden child, everything is done to appease and protect it.

Ah yes, that would explain, amongst other things, why the UK airlines have been so successful in resisting one of the highest levels Airport Passenger Duty in the World ...Hmm oh, that's right, they haven't. There are countless other examples of the industry being regarded as anything but a "golden child"..

There's a joke in the industry about the initials "CAA" standing for the "Campaign Against Aviation"..

ChardonnaysPetDragon · 29/06/2020 17:48

Oh really, why don't they even pay tax on their fuel?

They get away with everything they want. Billions of taxpayers money will be spent on the supporting infrastructure for Heathrow3, even though is it owned by Ferrovial.

Japa · 29/06/2020 17:53

I totally agree with you, OP. The government should not be allowing non-essential travel. I feel really worried about what will happen in the autumn when cold weather begins, schools are back and there is a lot more social mingling. Will we be back to where we were in April? How many more people will die?

Smileyk · 29/06/2020 17:57

I get colds, coughs (even pneumonia once!) when I fly so no chance am I considering it this year!

Jadey16 · 29/06/2020 18:01

I live in Cornwall, telling people to have a holiday in the uk is just as bad as going abroad in my opinion, currently Cornwall have done pretty well and it hasn’t been too bad, however when everyone comes down here for their holidays, our one hospital in the whole of the county will struggle and we will all be stuffed. Think it might actually be safer for my family and I to pop to Spain.

Catwaving · 29/06/2020 18:06

It's as if the BBC has some sort of international travel pushing agenda

Where is what should be front page reporting on the record, dangerous temperatures recorded in the arctic?????

Why are they ignoring all the scientist warnings all over again!!?????

Cartesiandebt · 29/06/2020 18:25

Covid aside, the aviation industry in its current form really needs to be significantly downsized in the medium to long term anyway - it’s not sustainable environmentally. Perhaps this crisis presents an opportunity for that to happen. Future generations will look back with horror at the casual way we flew around for short breaks in such a polluting and destructive mode of transport.

Personally I’d be happy to fly less and pay much more when I do fly. I think an escalating tax per passenger would be fair - say 5% for your first flight, 7.5% for your second flight and so on. Something certainly has to be done.

Whatamesshaslunch · 29/06/2020 18:27

What makes me laugh is the green/orange/red label for each country. Surely we’ll be ‘red’ to everyone else in Europe, except maybe Sweden? Grin

Parker231 · 29/06/2020 18:34

Looks like visiting my parents in Belgium will be ok but waiting to see whether we can also go to DH’s parents in Canada. No chance to see DSil in the US even though their state hardly has had any cases.

TrixieMixie · 29/06/2020 18:35

People are fixated on holidays to a degree I cannot understand. Why take the risk? And will it really be enjoyable if you are stressed out about maybe getting the virus, being stuck in a foreign country ill, or having to go in quarantine? But some people seem to think holidays are the be all and end all, not just in this pandemic. For example, my husband had an awful type of cancer for which the treatment is very hard, leaving him unable to eat and drink for ages except liquid food through a tube. We didn't have a holiday for ages as it would have been very hard to manage and hardly enjoyable if you can't eat or drink and are in constant pain. But there were people on the Macmillan forum going on holiday really soon after their treatment and then complaining they didn't have a good time.

yve62 · 29/06/2020 18:36

I can undertand why mainland Europeans wouldn't want to come here as our handling of this has been apalling but we are at little risk from tourists with much lower numbers than ours. Seems quite obvious so yes I think YABU

Parker231 · 29/06/2020 18:38

Travel isn’t just going on holiday, it’s visiting family.

oblada · 29/06/2020 18:41

Cartesiandebt - I assume you don't have family abroad?
Both our families are abroad. 13hours' drive in one case, 13hrs flight in the other. So without the planes we'd struggle to get there.
We definitely need to re-think short business trips but other than that maybe we need to look at making aeroplanes more 'environmentally friendly' without preventing people from discovering the world, relocating and seeing family. There are a lot of things we can also do on a much lower/more realistic scale than stopping to go on planes.
I'd be pretty unhappy not being able to see my family and Ill admit to enjoying holidays abroad where I discover other cultures.

browneyes77 · 29/06/2020 18:42

I agree.

There is no way I’ll be getting on a plane for the next year!

threatmatrix · 29/06/2020 18:42

So are you all staying indoors until there’s a vaccine??? I for one can’t wait to get my foot on a plane. I’ve not had the pleasure of sitting on my arse on furlough. I’ve now worked for over a year with no time off. I’m absolutely ecstatic about going away.

Peaseblossom22 · 29/06/2020 19:01

I have also not been furloughed @threatmatrix but I am not keen to get on a plane simply for a holiday . Visiting family is one thing , just to sit in a beach in a soup of others from all over Europe mixing germs, frankly no . I am not staying indoors even now but I am cautious , I don’t see the point in tempting fate.

Localocal · 29/06/2020 19:01

We are going to Italy next week. The Italian government is desperate for tourists. The airlines and vendors need our pounds. We are lucky enough to be able to afford it. Community transmission is very low in both the area we live in and the area we are going to. Loads of extra precautions are in place for the journey and we are well stocked with masks, gloves and hand gel. When we get there we will chill at a private rental and walk to a quiet beach.

I get that it's not over yet, and I understand why a lot of people won"t make that choice, but looking at the situation from all sides this is the choice we are making and I don't think it's unreasonable.

BarefootHippieChick · 29/06/2020 19:05

Surely we'll be 'red' to everyone else in Europe, except maybe Sweden

I hear Sweden is a lovely place to visit at this time of year 😉

Walkaround · 29/06/2020 19:09

mrpumblechook - there was plenty of data to be collected at the height of the European pandemic, with repatriation flights etc, so try again with your arguments about flights themselves being so risky... The fact is, if you are arguing it’s OK to holiday in the UK but too dangerous to holiday in a country that has better control over covid 19 than the UK does, that your arguments are illogical.

LivinLaVidaLoki · 29/06/2020 19:09

Anyone else noticed the undercurrent of classism here?

Anyone deemed "thick" to be going away must be going Benidorm, Tenerife....

Also to the poster suggesting a boat to France? How is multiple modes of transport any safer than a plane?

To the posters questioning how holidays abroad help the uk economy? Tens of thousands of people employed not only in airlines and airports but also in food supply who provide food for planes, cleaners, airports have their own fire services, their own planning authorities.....what would happen if they all became redundant overnight?

Go to Cornwall/Brighton/Bournemouth/Blackpool.....no thank you. They've been actively abusing everyone and telling us to stay the fuck at home for months, now they want us to go spend our money? Dont think so.

Also the economy you hate? Pays for the services you love. Many domestic abuse refuge beds commissioned by local authorities, respite services for disabled children or adults and let's not forget the NHS.

There were suggestions last week that some councils could go broke over covid or have to increase taxes. Their was outrage. What did people think would happen when we shut down for 3 months??!!

I'm sick to death of people labelling others as "thick", "dumb" or selfish just because we are doing something that we are perfectly allowed to do that has little or no extra risk to being here. You want to stay at home that is absolutely fine, but I'm sick of you all trying to take away anyone elses opportunity to do something different.

LivinLaVidaLoki · 29/06/2020 19:14

*there not their

rayn · 29/06/2020 19:15

I think people should be able to travel for family reasons but does anyone really 'need' a holiday?
If we end up with a second wave and travel banned again then there is a good chance that airlines will go under anyway.
It's a catch 22 - if they don't operate they will go under. If they do operate and spread covid then another lockdown will probably mean that they don't survive too.
Did anyone see Dr Hilary this morning on GMTV in which Piers asked if he would fly and he said no way?
I asked my brother today who is a GP and he said he would not fly and he does not know any colleagues who would consider it.
Just a thought!

rookiemere · 29/06/2020 19:16

Indeed Livin and people saying that travel is bad for the general joe public going on their prebooked holiday ,but because they want to visit family, or to stay in an expensive secluded villa these are somehow more justifiable moral choices than going to stay in a plebby AI in Lanzarote.

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