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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think it’s dumb that international holidays are being encouraged in the middle of a pandemic

730 replies

Redolent · 27/06/2020 23:09

AIBU to think is probably the part of the coronavirus pandemic that will lead to WTF reactions in future history books? A world clinging desperately to its globalized ways and unwilling to countenance altering them even in the midst of a crisis like this.

European countries have just gone through months of brutal economic and social lockdowns, with the goal of suppressing the virus. They’ve just experienced, at a huge cost, what it’s like to have the virus slowly and imperceptibly land within their borders via air travel.

And yet, just as the virus starts circulating at low levels, they all decide to open up their borders to each other again, in these supposedly safe ‘air corridors’. Enroute to their destinations, their citizens flock to public transport, then to busy airports and planes, where they sit for hours in the midst of other passengers, then on to their destinations, where they mix with other citizens coming in from all over the world too, in social and alcohol-fuelled conditions. In the meantime, governments - like the UK - have vowed that any outbreaks in other countries will mean that returning tourists may have to suddenly quarantine for two weeks upon their return home. It’s a panicked and volatile strategy, subject to a monitoring of the spread of the virus in multiple other countries. Of course it’s bound to go wrong.

TLDR: close the borders. Internationalism can wait.

OP posts:
Cartesiandebt · 29/06/2020 19:20

Cartesiandebt - I assume you don't have family abroad? Both our families are abroad. 13hours' drive in one case, 13hrs flight in the other. So without the planes we'd struggle to get there

Your assumption is incorrect. My parents live abroad and I have siblings on different continents. I am a frequent flyer, I normally travel a lot. But I can see that this is not sustainable. I will be reducing my travel in the future. Hopefully flying will become considerably more expensive if several airlines fold & others will fly less too.

helpIhateclothesshopping · 29/06/2020 19:22

I think it's ridiculous to be travelling for holidays. Foreign holidays are lovely, but hardly essential. In the past, any holiday was a luxury, especially a foreign holiday. Now I think it's all about politics, keeping the travel industry going and making sure the rich can still go on their exotic holidays

MarshaBradyo · 29/06/2020 19:23

I have family abroad and think low cost flights is a trend that can reverse.

I’d also be worried about carrying virus to parents atm.

LivinLaVidaLoki · 29/06/2020 19:25

@rookiemere

Indeed Livin and people saying that travel is bad for the general joe public going on their prebooked holiday ,but because they want to visit family, or to stay in an expensive secluded villa these are somehow more justifiable moral choices than going to stay in a plebby AI in Lanzarote.
@rookiemere Some heads may explode then, as I am hopefully visiting my family in Greece, however the family I am visiting are spread all over the island so we have actually booked a package at a nice hotel so we have a nice base from which to visit everyone and a nice place to stay for a few "just us" days. Am I virtuous for visiting family or some kind of scumbag for doing it alongside a package in a nice AI?
LivinLaVidaLoki · 29/06/2020 19:26

Hopefully flying will become considerably more expensive if several airlines fold & others will fly less too

What about all those that will lose their jobs? Do they not matter?

Cartesiandebt · 29/06/2020 19:38

What about all those that will lose their jobs? Do they not matter?

Of course they matter! But that’s no reason to persist with unsustainable practices. Otherwise we’d still be mining coal in this country.

They will retrain, or find work in other areas with transferable skialls.

threatmatrix · 29/06/2020 20:07

GREED!! if basic economics. I can tell there’s not a lot of business owners on here.

weepingwillow22 · 29/06/2020 20:11

A second wave in the UK will not be caused by foreign travel. It will be caused by increased indoor socialising, probably in the autumn.

Allowing foreign travel will likely reduce infection rates in the UK as UK residents will be spreading covid elsewhere in the world rather than at home.

As for unsustainable practices, that is a completely different argument. Air travel only contributes a very small % towards carbon emissions. Many envionmentally unsustainable practices such as the extraction of shale gas are actively supported by the current government. You could even argue that the government should introduce a one child policy on the basis of envionmental sustainability if that is your line of reasoning.

Walkaround · 29/06/2020 20:23

Cartesiandebt - very amusing. We all know what happened to coal mining communities when coal mines were closed down, and it wasn’t a story of lots of happy former miners re-skilling and getting good jobs elsewhere. Try instead a picture of large areas of the country blighted by mass unemployment, from which they have yet to recover a great many years later.

Cartesiandebt · 29/06/2020 20:30

We all know what happened to coal mining communities when coal mines were closed down, and it wasn’t a story of lots of happy former miners re-skilling and getting good jobs elsewhere.

That does not mean that closing the mines was the wrong thing to do. It had to happen.

Walkaround · 29/06/2020 20:30

As for what’s better for the planet - I’m not sure using all this disposable PPE and keeping so many people alive is necessarily good for the planet as a whole, either. It might be more “sustainable” to let a few more of us die, in the long run, as well as letting us all become unemployed.

Cartesiandebt · 29/06/2020 20:32

As for unsustainable practices, that is a completely different argument.

Actually it’s all very much interrelated. Environmental devastation and climate change will lead to further pandemics and widespread international travel on cheap flights is what has caused this one to spread so quickly.

The fact that Aus and NZ have managed to limit the spread by banning incoming travellers speaks for itself.

Walkaround · 29/06/2020 20:35

Cartesiandebt - then logically, you should also be arguing that modern medicine has created unsustainable practices, including world over-population and excessive prolongation of life.

MarshaBradyo · 29/06/2020 20:36

Walkaroukd would you have kept the mining industry going?

Aloux · 29/06/2020 20:37

Exactly, can't hide from it forever unfortunalty we have to just get on with life x

Walkaround · 29/06/2020 20:38

MarshaBradyo - no, but I wouldn’t have had the brass balls to say all the miners can retrain themselves and find themselves jobs elsewhere, whilst actually doing bugger all to work out how this could be achieved before I took their livelihoods away from them.

pigeon999 · 29/06/2020 20:40

You can hear people justifying to themselves why they are a special case, because they know that they are increasing the risk to both themselves and others by flying, and yet they will still go because they want to.

You can mitigate some risks but not all on a flight, and quite frankly if someone coughs near you or sneezes anywhere near by knowing how far the particles can travel, you are screwed. The tiny particles will make their way into your eyes, onto the mask if you are wearing one and you may touch it as you take it off. It could sit on the surfaces for a very long time. Even if you were wearing a full mask you would still have particles on your clothing etc. So it really will be Russian roulette as to who you travel with and whether they are well or not. They may be entirely asymptomatic and seating right next to you. A super spreader for instance. The point is you can not control or mitigate anything, you are hoping for the best, thats all. You may arrive to a lockdown or it may happen if one hotel guest falls ill, you are then stuck in your room for 14 days with food delivered on a tray. That is the reality.

I can't see how any of this creates a relaxing 'fun' break. I can't think of anything worse, and that is before we have even covered the risk you will also infect family, friends and those that you work with on your return assuming you won't be quarantining any time soon.

So forgive me, but really it IS incredibly selfish to put everyone at risk both at your holiday destination and at home. It is, and most people will be thinking exactly that in RL even if they are not telling you to your face.

B9008 · 29/06/2020 20:43

I agree Pigeon. I’m don’t get this obsession with going away in these times. Holidays are nice but not essential and if you want a holiday then stay in the UK and have one. There is plenty of choice.

weepingwillow22 · 29/06/2020 20:43

@Cartesiandebt

As for unsustainable practices, that is a completely different argument.

Actually it’s all very much interrelated. Environmental devastation and climate change will lead to further pandemics and widespread international travel on cheap flights is what has caused this one to spread so quickly.

The fact that Aus and NZ have managed to limit the spread by banning incoming travellers speaks for itself.

I would have completely supported banning international flights in feb/mar when we had a chance to stem the spread of infection. Unfortunately it is now much too late for that and we are far more likely to be exporting it than importing it.
Walkaround · 29/06/2020 20:44

And as for aviation, unlike coal mining, we haven’t yet found good alternatives to transporting around the world everything that this overpopulated planet needs to be transported fast enough to sustain the people living on it. We’ve made the problem even more acute with Brexit - far from trading close to home, we appear to want to trade more with countries far, far away, whose trade needs to be transported somehow. The entire global economy needs rethinking, not just aviation.

mbosnz · 29/06/2020 20:48

Just on the coal mining thing, while there are no current deep coal mining operations, there are still opencast mining sites, aren't there, like Tairgwaith in South Wales?

mrpumblechook · 29/06/2020 20:49

Some heads may explode then, as I am hopefully visiting my family in Greece, however the family I am visiting are spread all over the island so we have actually booked a package at a nice hotel so we have a nice base from which to visit everyone and a nice place to stay for a few "just us" days. Am I virtuous for visiting family or some kind of scumbag for doing it alongside a package in a nice AI?

Greece have decided not to let anyone from the UK visit.

MarshaBradyo · 29/06/2020 20:50

Greece have decided not to let anyone from the UK visit

Interesting I didn’t know that. Their number of deaths is so low I don’t blame them.

weepingwillow22 · 29/06/2020 20:52

The government are still approving new coal mining sites
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/nov/03/government-under-fire-after-approval-of-new-coal-mine-in-cumbria