To think it’s dumb that international holidays are being encouraged in the middle of a pandemic

[Redolent]

AIBU to think is probably the part of the coronavirus pandemic that will lead to WTF reactions in future history books? A world clinging desperately to its globalized ways and unwilling to countenance altering them even in the midst of a crisis like this.

European countries have just gone through months of brutal economic and social lockdowns, with the goal of suppressing the virus. They’ve just experienced, at a huge cost, what it’s like to have the virus slowly and imperceptibly land within their borders via air travel.

And yet, just as the virus starts circulating at low levels, they all decide to open up their borders to each other again, in these supposedly safe ‘air corridors’. Enroute to their destinations, their citizens flock to public transport, then to busy airports and planes, where they sit for hours in the midst of other passengers, then on to their destinations, where they mix with other citizens coming in from all over the world too, in social and alcohol-fuelled conditions. In the meantime, governments - like the UK - have vowed that any outbreaks in other countries will mean that returning tourists may have to suddenly quarantine for two weeks upon their return home. It’s a panicked and volatile strategy, subject to a monitoring of the spread of the virus in multiple other countries. Of course it’s bound to go wrong.

TLDR: close the borders. Internationalism can wait.

An annual insurance policy is the way to go then! I love Mumsnet as you get so much more information, thanks.

It's not going to help now as covid will be excluded. People are covered by annual policies if they had them before the pandemic.

As this thread illustrates, you can't argue with stupid...

I think the economy is a red herring.

The question is, is it legally justifiable to prevent people from travelling overseas? The airlines were mounting a legal challenge and the government stood a good chance of losing.

The lockdown was to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed and this was successful. If restaurants, hairdressers and pubs are opening I can't see how it is justifiable to restrict travel in countries with a lower R rate than the UK.

The issue of risk is a personal one. To someone with surplus money, good health and a low risk category travelling might feel like an acceptable risk. For someone who is vulnerable, or who cannot imagine risking £££, it's not. It's not really a right/wrong moral issue though, the virus is here to stay for now and someone's jaunt away won't change that.

These countries need tourists for the summer season, they will be severely in trouble if they don't. They need to get their economy up and going otherwise the country and people will suffer. We can't stay in lockdown forever and I don't understand people who think we can. Countries like Greece are already on their knees we will be heading for a crash if they don't open up.

I would be very careful about thinking that any insurance policy is going to cover much. I added covid insurance on to our annual policy before this all kicked off properly, and haven't heard a peep from them about a fairly modest deposit refund for holiday accommodation. I've been told they are unlikely to refund us as the accommodation owner has said we can use it if we come back in the next 12 months - but as it's Costa Rica that's not very likely.

To be fair holiday insurance is not really designed for global situations like this.

International travel is what spread the virus in the first place yet here they are, allowing it again. Madness if you ask me. At least they aren’t including the USA on the list....yet!!

It is ridiculous, and will cause a second wave in the autumn. We will start moving the infection around again, and we will be back to square one.

On a personal level I will not put my children, husband and myself at risk by taking non essential flights for a holiday through busy airports and travelling with potentially infected people at close proximity. It is just astonishing that anyone would consider travelling overseas this summer when the infection rate is spiking again in most of Europe, and we are nowhere near on top of this.

People are looking for a break from all of this, it is natural to need a rest, but it won't be relaxing for anyone and likely to feel very, very stressful in my view.

And also, stop pretending that travel corridors will allow people to fly anywhere they like, whenever they like, without restriction.

I would add though that this demand they are all talking about is still pretty flat. An 80% rise in last weeks bookings is still low as I can’t imagine bookings before the rules changed being high.

I also looked on easyJet last night. On many flights in the peak 6 week period you can book 40 seats (the maximum you can search for). That indicates that there will be lots of empty seats on many flights which actually could lead to them being cancelled.

If you want a new travel insurance policy to include Covid it will cost you. Policies pre Covid may be ok but check the small print. We have an annual family policy which covers everything (we know of) but we travel frequently and consider it a part of the cost of going on holiday. Policies will be invalid if you travel to a country against FCO advice so will need to check which countries are included in next weeks air bridges.

These countries need tourists for the summer season, they will be severely in trouble if they don't. They need to get their economy up and going otherwise the country and people will suffer.

Why are you more worried about "these countries" than the UK? Don't you think our economy needs as much help as possible. We need tourists too but we won't get any if people think the risk of COVID is too high. Unlike us, "these countries" will at least have tourists from other European countries and at least they are part of the EU.

So much bollocks on this thread .
It’s not greed , it’s the need for these economies to recover.
Fine , don’t go on holiday this year but you may find your favourite hotel in Greece or wherever is now gone because they had no tourists..
The greed seems to be people in the U.K. hiking up their prices for their holiday let’s ,so a grand to stay in a glorified shed for a week where people have no concept of social distancing on the local beaches.. give me Spain any day where they are actually enforcing these things ! I know where I’d feel safer

@mrpumblechook You clearly haven’t seen all the muppets crushed together on the beaches or outside pubs .. these idiots are spending enough money for every one so no , I’m not worried about our economy when Cornwall , Yorkshire etc.. have ramped up their prices for a break in the U.K.

fluffy Holidays are NOT more important than the lives that will be lost if we see another spike or worse still a second wave! Both those in the tourist spots in Europe and those here!!

If the hotel in Greece does not survive then I guess we will go somewhere else in time, but it is not our job to keep the aviation and holiday islands afloat!! Our job is to keep ourselves safe, keep the death rate low and hope for a resolution in the shape of a vaccine.

I am astonished that you think the economic costs of the pandemic are more important than the death rate, and you have the audacity to call it greed!!! It is greedy of countries to expect us to be put at massive risk to bankroll their economies, that is greed and stupidity in equal measure.

pigeon999 what are your thoughts for how we manage this long term if we don't get a reliable vaccine?

Fine , don’t go on holiday this year but you may find your favourite hotel in Greece or wherever is now gone because they had no tourists..

Do you actually think that the rest of the world can't survive without UK visitors?

You clearly haven’t seen all the muppets crushed together on the beaches or outside pubs ..

I have and those muppets will soon be on planes for their "essential" holiday in the sun. Do you think they won't go if they have symptoms? They won't give a toss about the risk of infecting others.

rook The vaccine is progressing very well, so there is every reason to feel hopeful. In the meantime the treatments for patients are improving all of the time, so it may be that even without the vaccine the virus can be 'managed' successfully.

All of these things take time, so in the short term if you want to stay alive and well, and particularly those closest to you that are older or vulnerable then conservative holiday plans are probably the way to go.

One single summer of no overseas travel will kill absolutely nobody, but extensive air travel and movement of people again probably will. The virus thrives on exactly this.

In the longer term, Covid will be managed is my best guess until the vaccine is available. I feel some sympathy for the travel sector I really do, but my real sympathies lie with those that have lost their lives through no fault of their own, and their families, and the many more to come if this insanity continues. This is nowhere over, and has a long time to run.

Those that decide to travel will by their very definition risk takers, and that is not a great combination when you consider volume, incubation and risk factors. It is a very bad idea, common sense tells you that!

@pigeon999 Climb down ,love .
I’ve lost a niece to covid so don’t preach to me about peoples lives ..
I do think the economy is important and without a decent economy life would be shit for everyone anyway !
This isn’t going away , we have to live with it ,not hide from it .
I don’t have a holiday booked but bloody wish I did !

@mrpumblechook

Fine , don’t go on holiday this year but you may find your favourite hotel in Greece or wherever is now gone because they had no tourists..

Do you actually think that the rest of the world can't survive without UK visitors?

I think parts of Europe will significantly struggle , yes

fluffy If you are so concerned for the economy, as in the whole UK economy and not just the travel sector, then you will know we desperately need to avoid another full lockdown. The single biggest threat to our economy right now is another huge wave.

We avoid another lockdown by keeping infection rates under control, we keep our activities to a minimum and have consideration for others by socially distancing. None of these things can be achieved on an aircraft
We only need one super spreader and we are screwed (again) Look at the Times today. One chap goes to a nightclub for a few hours in Zurich = 300 people instantly infected. That is the reality. Whether you like it or not.

We have to get on with our lives, but in the safest way possible.

This isn’t going away , we have to live with it ,not hide from it

I think that this is one of the most overused phrases during the pandemic. You have no idea about whether it will or won't go away. It might get less dangerous, we might get better treatments or we might get a vaccine. It might also get worse, people may never develop effective immunity and everyone may get it again and again until they die. I'm going to act on the hope that the former will happen rather than giving up and saying that "this isn't going away".

I notice a few pages back that people were mentioning that we are now churning out ventilators so that, should we get sick, we will have able to get one.

I would just point out that a ventilator alone won't save you, you need qualified staff to care for you and they, sadly, aren't able to be churned out in a factory.

Pigeon999 We're not being asked to keep our activities to a minimum though, are we? We need to social distance and be mindful of hygiene but people are going to work, meeting friends in parks and gardens, going to shops and garden centres and from Saturday will be going to pubs, restaurants, for haircuts etc. All normal activities. We've been asked to social distance and be mindful of spreading the virus but not to keep activities to a minimum.

Thank you to the two scientists up here ⬆️
So glad you were able to educate me ..
Just so you know though , I can categorically state that there will be no second lockdown , it will not happen .
Will some things close back up ? Yes probably but will it be like the first lock down ? Nope