To think it’s dumb that international holidays are being encouraged in the middle of a pandemic

[Redolent]

AIBU to think is probably the part of the coronavirus pandemic that will lead to WTF reactions in future history books? A world clinging desperately to its globalized ways and unwilling to countenance altering them even in the midst of a crisis like this.

European countries have just gone through months of brutal economic and social lockdowns, with the goal of suppressing the virus. They’ve just experienced, at a huge cost, what it’s like to have the virus slowly and imperceptibly land within their borders via air travel.

And yet, just as the virus starts circulating at low levels, they all decide to open up their borders to each other again, in these supposedly safe ‘air corridors’. Enroute to their destinations, their citizens flock to public transport, then to busy airports and planes, where they sit for hours in the midst of other passengers, then on to their destinations, where they mix with other citizens coming in from all over the world too, in social and alcohol-fuelled conditions. In the meantime, governments - like the UK - have vowed that any outbreaks in other countries will mean that returning tourists may have to suddenly quarantine for two weeks upon their return home. It’s a panicked and volatile strategy, subject to a monitoring of the spread of the virus in multiple other countries. Of course it’s bound to go wrong.

TLDR: close the borders. Internationalism can wait.

I just wonder what happens when people get on a plane in the UK to fly across Europe to a country willing to let them come for a holiday ... assuming that temperature checks on the other end come up 'normal'.
But what if they don't? I imagine it would be possible that everyone on the plane would be required to quarantine for their holiday in that country, and be stuck there for 2 weeks in quarantine...

It’s difficult to consider that many European countries tried very hard to keep numbers low to now let it increase because tourism season is here.

I know economically it’s probably a non choice but it’s a shame for them.

The U.K. has high rates than the countries letting us in anyway.

And travelling abroad is really not significantly more dangerous than commuting to work, getting the train to Cornwall, going to the cinema, etc.

How do you know that it is not significantly more dangerous? If you are on a train or cinema at the moment you can usually sit well apart from other people. You can't do that on a plane and I wouldn't trust companies such as Ryanair to be filtering the air properly.

So how about you just shop in the supermarket once a week and let others risk assess for themselves from the selection of activities they are allowed to partake in?

Oh yes because everybody is so great a risk assessments are they? You only have to look at what happened in Bournemouth and the raves etc to see that. It's reported in the media around the world by the way as an example of why we have such a high death rate.

*But what if they don't? I imagine it would be possible that everyone on the plane would be required to quarantine for their holiday in that country, and be stuck there for 2 weeks in quarantine..

Yes, I bet that will happen.

Butwhat if they don't? I imagine it would be possible that everyone on the plane would be required to quarantine for their holiday in that country, and be stuck there for 2 weeks in quarantine..

It's a risk. But if 1 in 1100 have it, that might be a risk people are willing to take.

If I were in a better position than I am, I would consider a UK break but I would not go abroad.
I do think it is playing with fire to start jetting all over the place for a holiday. It is bad enough the uk beaches have been rammed with irresponsible people not social distancing at all.

Redolent thank you. I don't agree, but I respect your viewpoint. In my local area in London fewer than 0.5% have tested positive for Coronavirus, although I'm sure many more have had it but not been tested. I feel we need to start to live with the virus and assess risk. I'd be happy to go to a restaurant but I wouldn't go to a busy pub, although I'd be happy at this stage to sit in a pub garden or restaurant. But I think we need to start to move forward and let people decide.

I feel we need to start to live with the virus and assess risk. I'd be happy to go to a restaurant but I wouldn't go to a busy pub, although I'd be happy at this stage to sit in a pub garden or restaurant. But I think we need to start to move forward and let people decide.

The problem is that many people (if they do any risk assessment at all) are only looking at it from the view of their own risk of death and not taking into account that if they catch it and infect other people then not only will there be more deaths but it could also have an impact on whether schools and many businesses survive. This isn't a situation where individuals can do their own risk assessment because their actions don't just affect them. You're not "learning to live with the virus" if you are doing things that ultimately will reduce other people's survival and damage the economy.

Mrpumblechook what would you have us do? All stay at home? At what point do we go out? The economy won't stand it. We have to get businesses up and running or risk poverty, deaths and misery from lack of money and essential services. I already have a friend who has taken his own life in the last few months.

Specialist on Tv on Channel 4 news just now. He described it as a fearsome foe. And not to be taken lightly.

I think looking at this thread that some people want lockdown to continue, they want furlough to last well into next year. I applauded the Headteacher who said that she was concerned about the attitude of some of her teachers who were unwilling to come to work and who ran crying to the unions, the unions themselves who claimed a victory that schools weren’t going back in full until Sept and who are saying even Sept is looking unrealistic. Shame on them.

I looked at UK holidays and they can get stuffed with their inflated prices and the unpredictable weather. I have relatives in Cornwall and they say that the hotels really don’t want people coming but do want the money so they will up the prices because some people are scared stiff of in some cases going out shopping.

We need to move on from this.

I want schools back so if we’re going with the live with it thing then holidays, pubs and schools back in full.

If the former start some restrictions which mean they crack down on the latter it’ll be annoying .

I don't see why the fact that international travel helped spread the virus in the first place is being assumed to be relevant. The issue is whether it will do now, when it's already widespread amongst populations. The answer to that may be yes, I don't know, but that seems the only way to frame the issue.

For me, I don't necessarily see being in another country as more of a risk in respect of the virus itself. What puts me off is potentially being ill, having to isolate or both. I'd much rather be doing those things here.

All stay at home? At what point do we go out? The economy won't stand it. We have to get businesses up and running or risk poverty, deaths and misery from lack of money and essential services. I already have a friend who has taken his own life in the last few months.

I haven't suggested that people shouldn't go out. I just think that if people to take the risk it should be to things that increase employment in the UK. Going on holiday abroad or sitting on a beach in Bournemouth or going to a rave doesn't achieve that. If anything it reduces the chances of schools reopening and increases the chances of UK businesses collapsing.

mrpumblechook - if you think people can’t be trusted to risk assess, then shut up and accept that people will do what they are allowed to do. If they aren’t allowed to do it, then they can be stopped. If they are allowed, then it’s not for you to tell the world that you are capable of making risk assessments, but nobody else can be trusted!

I just think that if people to take the risk it should be to things that increase employment in the UK. Going on holiday abroad or sitting on a beach in Bournemouth or going to a rave doesn't achieve that.

Errr..At the risk of being controversial again:

Plenty of UK jobs depend on people travelling to and through British ports/airports, flying with UK based airlines, buying ice creams/meals/drinks at shops and restaurants at seaside resorts......

I will admit to being pretty clueless abut raves..

And as for travelling overseas not affecting employment and the economy of the UK - tell that to the huge numbers of people reliant on foreign travel either directly or indirectly for their livelihoods. It’s very ignorant to think people travelling abroad only makes money for the countries they are travelling to.

It’s very ignorant to think people travelling abroad only makes money for the countries they are travelling to.

It's very ignorant to think that most of the money you are paying for foreign travel goes to the UK. UK operators may take a small percentage but the great majority will go abroad on the hotel and on your spending. The UK would benefit far more if you spent that money all the money in the UK not just a relatively very small amount of your holiday budget.

Plenty of UK jobs depend on people travelling to and through British ports/airports, flying with UK based airlines, buying ice creams/meals/drinks at shops and restaurants at seaside resorts......

I don't think Bournemouth made much money out of the daytrippers. They probably spent more clearing the beach and they made on ice creams. Money may be spent in UK airports but it still a relatively small part of people's holiday budget. Most of their money will be spent abroad.

mrpumblechook - airports and airlines and engineering firms in the UK (eg Rolls Royce) make huge sums of money for the UK economy. Businesses base themselves near airports for a reason, too - they need airports to remain profitable and keep operating. The local economies around large airports are hugely reliant on them for direct and indirect employment.

And of course Bournemouth didn’t make money out of the day trippers, because its attractions are still closed and nobody was allowed to stay the night.

Money makes the world go round, the world go round, the world go round 🌎

airports and airlines and engineering firms in the UK (eg Rolls Royce) make huge sums of money for the UK economy. Businesses base themselves near airports for a reason, too - they need airports to remain profitable and keep operating. The local economies around large airports are hugely reliant on them for direct and indirect employment.

I didn't say that they won't make any money for the UK. I said that it is a relatively small amount compared with the cost of hotel and spending money. Not everyone even flies with a UK company. Regardless the airline industry is one thing the world could do with a lot less of.

mrpumblechook - just be more honest with your assessment. It’s not so much the risk you are really bothered about as the fact you think people just fly too much in the first place...

A job as a UK pilot or aircraft engineer is far better paid than a job working in a UK hotel or selling UK ice creams on a UK pier. Still, I guess lots of people driving in their cars from one part of the UK to another on a UK holiday will be good business for petrol stations.