How exactly do you know your child is top of their class

[shadesofsun]

As per the title, I am curious as to how so many parents claims their child is top of the class, so who tells you that?

Are teachers really telling parents this or giving a hierarchy of where the children sit?

Because they get the top marks in their sats (my eldest).
However this was due to his anxiety after the death of his brother (my third son). He hid under the benches at lunch time and didnt speak to people. He just concentrated on his work so knew all the answers in his sats papers (cant remember his score but the highest in the school). Headmaster sent a letter home.
Now after 2 years at secondary school he has been moved down from top maths group as he is struggling and I have a tutor lined up to help him from September onwards so he doesnt worry.
So... getting top Mark's doesnt mean anything. Doesnt even necessarily mean they are clever. Him getting those Mark's was because he was unhappy and struggling socially.
He is slightly less anxious at secondary school, has 2 friends and before lockdown was getting grades to indicate he is average academically.
So ...who cares where they are in the class. All you need to know is are they trying their best. Or are they struggling and if so do they need some extra help

@Mistlewoeandwhine

Cleverness is overrated. My husband is v v intelligent but has a pretty average job with no interest in pursuing anything more. Eldest child who is similar (and probably autistic) could read simple phonics books at 2.5 and gets 100% in computer science but has poor social skills and I wouldn’t feel comfortable letting him go away to university as I don’t think he’d cope. I’m a teacher and the kids I see faring the best are of reasonable sometimes just average intelligence but are motivated and have good social skills. That will get you much further in life.

I think this is very true.

Of my twin girls the much more academic one is less popular than the social butterfly. The social butterfly also has a more rounded ability - she doesn't excel at anything (apart from being sociable - which I learned early on was teacher speak for "talks a lot"), but she doesn't massively struggle with anything.

Her sister either excels at things or seriously struggles and those struggles are hard to deal with when she's used to doing very well

Last year DS was the top in every subject, his, teacher told me so and he got the highest SATS scores in the year. Then he moved schools and is now in the middle sets for everything. Different kids. And my God has it been good for him to feel a bit of competition, to have to work a bit harder etc.

It's reassuring reading the teacher responses on this thread!

Having had 3 kids I think it’s possible to fathom it out yourself; eldest was very bright- sailed through primary, sailed through grammar school, predicted 8’s/9’s next year with minimal/ zero effort. His sister, year 3, total opposite academic wise. She is doing well according to school and is on track- yet their work and approach to it is vastly different. His younger sister (reception), seems so be exactly like he was at that age. She is like a mini version of him with regards to how she interprets school work.

Of course academic ability is but one tiny facet of their lives; but I can see the differences (academic).

They’re all lovely (and equally annoying!). They are just very different academically.

I think as a parent you know if your DC is an easy interested learner or not determination shines from a baby.
DD is not top of the class she was always a slow starter she was a lazy baby too.
The teacher lets you know plus the STEN tests.
DS is very intelligent always interested in learning new things, takes it in easy if it interests him although he has SN so will only follow his own beat.

Teachers have regularly told us where they think our DC stand in the class, I was really surprised, it's not something I wanted to know or asked about. For example they might say at parents evening that they know the guided reading is too easy for DC, but they don't have any other students working at DC's level. DD in particular is quite a lot ahead and how to challenge her without making her feel singled out or left out is something that often gets discussed at parents evenings.

Generally the kids know at least who's top and bottom tables. Honourable exception to this year's teacher who sits them mixed ability but apart from that it's been the usual suspects working together. In reception they pretended it wasn't by ability, pure coincidence that all of rabbits table are writing sentences and all of sharks table are still working on cvc words. By y6 it was quite open, I'm going to put you on my top table for writing this term DS, I really want you to try hard to get greater depth.

Because they are on the top table, because you can read the scores on parent's eves, because their got better 11+ results than others, because of their public examination results, because g&t - how could you not have a pretty good idea of how they were doing with all that info out their?

I was assessed at the age of 4 and had an IQ of an 8 year old (my speech was a bit garbled, which is why they tested, but they decided that because I was living in a foreign country, I was trying to acquire both languages).

In primary school I started at pretty much a free reader, so I used to listen to other children read. I wasn't allowed to do maths for periods because I was too far ahead in the workbooks. I wasn't allowed to take the times tables tests because I just got 100% all the time, so I had to choose maths investigations to do in that time.

I was terribly lonely, lacked social skills and probably would get an Asperger's/HFA dx if I was a child today.

I've distinctly underachieved and I'm a SAHM now. I have one child with SN going to special school, one with ASD who is brighter than she thinks, but struggles to access her work, and one who is very able but a bit obsessive and particular, which slows her down a bit.

At a girls' grammar school in the 1950s I was top of the class. We used to work out our averages after end of terms' tests and end of year exams and I was top. Years later someone told me that they knew I would be top so they speculated who would be second.

I've got no idea but they always get top marks for effort on their reports and that's good enough for me. They are smart, funny and interested and I enjoy spending time with them and that's what counts, yes ?

When her 7th grade teacher said the school could not meet her needs, and recommended a magnet school. They were right, and once she was at the magnet school she was much more challenged, and was also quite often not top of the class especially in subjects like math.

I've actually found it harder to work out where my other two sit in class rankings. I'd guess one is slightly above average and the other slightly below average, but I don't actually know.

She said she'd never had a child work it out before

That's rubbish, they all know which is top table.

. I can read upside down very quickly and I saw DC1's name at the top. And it wasn't alphabetical.

You do know they sometimes also have the ones who need the most help at the top of the list don't you ?

@GinDaddyRedux

Yes, ok..but what is your AIBU question?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/education is a great forum for this. There's even a "Gifted and Talented" section..

I love the gifted and talented section. I don’t read it often, I save it for a treat for when I’ve had a hard day

I'm so old that when I was at school the exam marks (%) were read aloud to the whole class. There was a massive intake of breath when I
(a complete dunce at maths -- well known fact) who had sobbed all the way through my Maths mock O level having been chucked that morning by my boyfriend, came top of the year. I reverted to form and failed the O level six months later.

I've got no idea but they always get top marks for effort on their reports and that's good enough for me. They are smart, funny and interested and I enjoy spending time with them and that's what counts, yes ?

Yes. 🙌

My kids secondary school have a rank order system that they do twice a year. If my child is in the top 10 in a subject in the year then they inform us by email. There's also an overall rank for each year group.
Again, you only get told if you're at the top and those kids are invited to go into the Gifted and Talented program.

DS2 is a 'good all rounder', and he really is. Bright enough, gets on with everyone and is good at all subjects. Only 10 so years to go before formal exams etc.

DS1 was variously 'an enigma', 'needs to focus' always though he was not very clever as in low sets in primary.

We always knew he was bright, just lacking in confidence.

At secondary got very good CAT results of 115-120 and excellent yr 9 exam results. Got offered a place at a selective upper school, but turned it down as he wanted to stay at his comp with his mates.

I am very proud of him. He was never 'top of the class', but he is a bright beautiful 14 yo.

It's not all about being at the top your whole school career.

Why would it be useful to know?

A child could get top marks in SATs, or score perfectly on their homework, and not be top in the class, because that class includes very clever children. Equally a child might be top of the class despite struggling badly, because it so happens that that class is weak overall.

And (as others have said), high academic achievement can often be masked by/comorbid with other difficulties.

I do see that if a child is manifestly unhappy/bored, it's important to investigate, and the reason could be they're at or near the top of the class and aren't getting enough stimulation. Being top of the class and conscious of it can be a bigger emotional/social problem than children are ready for.

The problem with “top of the class” is that it very much depends on the cohort. A child in a very low achieving cohort can be “top” in their year, but if they moved to another school they might be distinctly average. I see it all the time at book scrutinies where one school’s “most able pupil” is another school’s least. Being in line with, above or below national expectations is a more valuable measure. Sometimes, despite being streets ahead of their peers they are not actually streets ahead on a national measure.

This is an interesting thread. I’ve often wondered this.
It’s noticeable the number of people who have said that their DC is the top of the class, so few people saying theirs is in the middle.
Also the numbers saying their child’s reading age, which they haven’t done in at least ten years.

I couldn’t tell you which child is the ‘top of the class’ for my class. It depends, I have a couple of really strong readers, but they are not so strong on maths. A few who are amazing at thinking through logic but struggle to write it down. One who has amazing general knowledge but finds the who concept of a classroom distressing and can’t write his own name.

I’ve never told a parent that their child is ‘top of the class’, mainly because it’s meaningless. It just means that their child is the most able out of the 30 children they are in a group with. In another school they might well be in the middle.

I’ll tell them that their child is exactly where we expect them to be, ahead of where they are expected to be or working towards.
I think some people hear what they want to hear.

My DD is only in nursery so her academic ability hasn't been ranked anywhere yet. However, based on her developmental reviews and my own knowledge I know she is further ahead in some areas and on par with peers in others. I've always been very academic (top marks, consistent As, first class honours and distinction for my masters) so I'm hoping DD will do well at school, not because I want to brag about her but realistically life is a little easier if you so well at school. That being said if she isnt I'd be fine with it as long as she still had a good work ethic!

@speakout

It means shit all. I have a huge regard for teachers but usually they have no understanding of life outside education.

Well clearly you have very little respect for teachers! Good to know that my First Class Law degree and 8 years as a criminal lawyer before I became a teacher turned me into such an airhead. Or the 12 years as a structural engineer that my year group partner spent, left her with no experience of anything in the outside world.

We educators...such an insular crowd 🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️

I could read basic books at 3 and famous five by aged 5. Was put up a year and skipped reception. By aged 11 I was pretty average. Passed a 2:1 at an average uni. Earn a just above average wage. My Mum no doubt boasted her little heart our about me.