How exactly do you know your child is top of their class

[shadesofsun]

As per the title, I am curious as to how so many parents claims their child is top of the class, so who tells you that?

Are teachers really telling parents this or giving a hierarchy of where the children sit?

@LettyBriggs

My DD’s school also seats kids according the kagan structure. I think it does the top achiever a disservice while bringing up the average, so I don’t like it.

Let me guess, your child is a higher achiever.

Why don't you like it that the average is brought up in your child's school? Would you really rather more children under achieved?

Because DS's teacher told me so? He was top at reading and second at maths, and overall top. Then he moved into a different class and he's no longer top. I know this because the teacher has stopped telling me he is top and because of how he reports his and his classmates' work. I don't mind either way - he's happy at school and has lots of friends. I wouldn't say he's amazingly academic - he's what they call "very able", but he is emotionally mature, which is more important to me.

What class?

My ds is reasonably bright, I wouldn’t say top of the class though. I think it doesn’t matter much though, children make progress at different times and at different rates. Some seem to do exceptionally well in primary school and then seem to be average at secondary.

I was very average at primary and excelled at only a few subjects at secondary. I don’t remember ever getting a certificate or praise for work. I did extremely well at university though because I worked hard and was motivated.

also don't forget that there is a 'top of the class' in every class, in every school. So really, one out of every 30 pupils is 'top of the class'. Statistically, it doesn't really mean anything.

CATS scores can be quite telling, but not all schools do them (usually performed end of y6/beginning of y7 but there are variations)

@ShinyFootball DB is particularly fucked up, for the record! One of these kids who after an exam, the exam board would write to the school to say that he was the top candidate in the country.
Sadly, a deeply unhappy adult.

teachers tell me at parents evening. DD2 tells me (she is 10 and well aware that she is sitting for everything at the highest table), school reports (she gets since reception exceeding for everything at the end of the school year). Not sure what is cringe worthy about it?

I also have a DD1 with severe learning difficulties and I am certainly aware that being bright academically isnt everything in life and that other qualities are much more important. but I am very proud of DD2 as she is working hard and as a sibling of sister with complex needs she has a lot more to deal with in life than many her peers and at the same time, gets a lot less attention.

Some teachers do let it slip.

Also as they get through school my DS had knew exactly where he was compared to his peers in various subjects. Now at GS they get told the scores in class of various tests, what the class average is and they all know each others scores.

Even young children work it out pretty quickly that the reading books others are reading are easier/ harder depending on the colour band, or that the others are only on their two times table and they're doing 3/4.
Even the colour of the tables they sat at, my eldest realised very early on and surprised me even when he said that a certain table colour meant the work was more challenging

It was a few years ago so I'm sure they don't seat them like that anymore.

You'd think not, but even on this thread lots of people have mentioned their children being on ability tables, so lots of schools must still do it.

They get selected for an international Olympiad

My child's school is sending out a daily bulletin with pictures of children's work. I find this vomit-inducing and a chance for parents to show off their child's ability while making other parents feel utterly crap about their child's progress.

ds school gives end of term test results as a mark, and class ranking.

DD1 was. She told me because they had groups and her group got the hardest work, highest scores and hers were highest in that group.

I know DD is near the top. As she is in top group for everything, got the academic achievement award, is reading well above her age and her teachers always say she's well ahead for where she needs to be.

There are other similarly bright children in her class. So she's unlikely to be the very top. If there is such a thing. But she's in the top few.

Because he’s about 18 months-2 years ahead of where he should be according to his teacher 🙈

In my day exam results were pinned to the classroom door. Results were in descending order so you knew exactly where you were in rank order. Nobody was always 'top of the class'. The top 25% were consistent and that was about it.

The current system of expected / above / below drives me nuts though. In Y10 DD got all 'expected' . That could mean she's doing really well which is what we expected or she's crap, ditto what we expected. Totally meaningless.

Being top of the class in one class can be completely different to being top of the class in a different year group...let alone a different school. If you work out that your child is sitting on the 'higher ability' table then that's great. They are clearly doing well but it won't necessarily mean they will be in top sets in secondary school (but they might...). It's all relative. Same as with 'lower ability' groups. This especially true in small class sizes.

@Artesia That made me giggle.

We have been told ds is one of the best at Irish, dd is one of the best at maths etc. They also have STEN tests every year that gives a score from 1-10, 1-3 could indicate difficulties, 3-4 below average, 5-6 is average, 7 high average, 8-10 well above average. These are averages from children all over Ireland so not just their school. Obviously these scores will vary depending on how your child does on the actual day but looking at it over the years it has given us a good idea of what their ability is.

I saw a TA after my Ds left - she described my Ds as a challenging year who it was known so all years they went through.

So in reality top of our year may well not be top of another year .

My own Ds was having to get reading books from older years as he was above the class on reading but nothing else

Because the teacher gets them to teach younger students in other classes how to read when they run out of ideas for work.

Because the extension work dries up and they just get your child to find interesting words in the dictionary.

Because your child comes home from school complaining about being bored and having nothing to do.

Because eventually the school asks permission to do high school work with your child as the primary curriculum is finished for her.

That was me at primary school. It's one reason why I'm home educating my children.

At my school children are in mixed ability groups. In my year group we name thr groups according to our topic, & groups & group names are changed every half term when we sort a new topic. This gives the children the chance to work in many different groups throughout the year. When we do work sheets they are differentiated & children choose their level, most do try to challenge themselves. However, children still seem to realise who is more able, & who needs more support.

As a teacher I would be very unlikely to say anything, not least because children shift places depending on the particular lesson, how they’re feeling that day etc. I don’t have a ‘top’ student in that way. Sometimes a parent talks to me about how incredible their child is and I’m quietly thinking “I’m not sure they’re quite as ahead of their peers as you seem to think they are...” However, if I ever taught a child who was absolutely miles ahead in every way I might raise it in the same way I might raise SEND issues to discuss differentiation.