How exactly do you know your child is top of their class

[shadesofsun]

As per the title, I am curious as to how so many parents claims their child is top of the class, so who tells you that?

Are teachers really telling parents this or giving a hierarchy of where the children sit?

Children who outshine their peers academically face very real challenges. Parents who are focusing on that aren’t bragging, they are dealing with harsh realities

Having a child who doesn’t learn how to work hard

Having a child that doesn’t fit in with other kids and struggles socially

Having a child that develops an attitude of disdain towards other less capable people

Both DH and I were those kids. It’s not surprising that our dd is too. Being the top of the class can make you as much of a special needs student as those who struggle. The school needs to meet the needs of all children and they often fail. So all this talk about teaching kids resilience and friendship and that is what really matters is just a tangent. Kids who are at the top academically are there because they are different. They struggle in their own unique ways. They aren’t there because of parental
pressure or parenting choices.

Yes Purpleartichoke. This was entirely our experience.

I have one who was academically off the top of the charts - the local school failed to meet her needs and she was very unhappy there.

I have one who has ADHD, slow processing and a couple of other processing disorders, and was regularly middle to bottom of the class. The local school took his issues seriously, put in place a plan to meet his needs, and he's very happy there and is now scoring all As and Bs.

Both my DDs knew exactly who was on the "top table", and who was on the "bottom table". They said they could work it out by who was sat where :)

It's not difficult, even in primary school, to work out who is cleverer than you, and who isn't.

"I have no idea where my child is in their peer group with schooling."

It was always obvious to me. I have three children of varying academic ability.

The first clue with DS1 was when his Reception teacher said at our first parents meeting that he was "Very, very academic"

With DD, when she went into Y1 she was in "Floppy" book bag box. There was Biff, Kipper, Chip and Floppy. It was glaringly obvious. In Reception they'd been sorted by fine motor skills and she'd been set with children of bankers and academics and they'd told me "She's still very little". When she went into Y2 she realised all the girls on the top table had elaborate hair styles and persuaded the TA to put bobbles in her bob, in an attempt to get a place on the top table.

That may be the case sometimes, PurpleArtichoke, and it's certainly a bit true with my dc. But I've also taught quite a lot of hard-working, popular, fairly easygoing top-of-the-class kids over the years.

The first clue with DS1 was when his Reception teacher said at our first parents meeting that he was "Very, very academic"

And you took that as a positive that he was "top of the class"? Rather than, he has poor physical, social and emotional skills that we all need to work on?

Maybe it was how it was meant of course, but this is where what the teacher says, and what the parent hears can often be so different, the phrase does have multiple ways of taking it.

Sirfred, there's no mention of poor physical/social/emotional skills in her comment. She may had that as well, but just didn't say it because this thread only talks about academic ability of children?
I am aware you have a gifted child. And you must know that comment can be totally true.

@sirfredfredgeorge

I've no idea why at the time DS1s poor social skills weren't mentioned by his Reception teacher. I was already aware of them. I kept clumsily asking "Is he like the other children?" and was assured he was totally normal. Infant school didn't seem to see any issue whatsoever (until he refused to participate in Y3 SATs) His physical skills were pretty damn hot though, so I don't know why his teacher didn't mention those! He's still physically able, academic .....and speaks to no one. I now know he's not Oxbridge
material but he was always in the top few at his small secondary.

This is so cringe.

That should be Y2 SATs

But anyway, my point was I have top of the class, middle of the class and bottom of the class children. I was totally aware of their position in the class academically and roughly which tables the other children in the class were on. I could also tell you wether DDs friends are taking foundation or higher maths and whether they are on any sports teams, and whether they play a musical instrument and to what grade.

I know what courses DSs friends are taking,

I can remember how heavy all the babies in my anti-natal class were at birth.

It's not a competition but people are different and I'm interested in them.

None of this is secret, and

At primary school I overheard the teacher telling a visitor I was in the top 3 in the class. I spent a while wondering whether I was 1, 2 or 3. So I was smart but clearly not smart enough to work out what top 3 meant!

"Being the top of the class can make you as much of a special needs student as those who struggle."

Having been a 'top of the class' student and having a DD with a complex SN, I can assure you this is untrue. Being top of the class may bring frustrations and you may not be stretched enough to completely stimulate you (I did all sorts of 'busy work' to make me tread water at school), but that is no comparison to the frustration and pain a child who has a Learning Disability feels. Don't get me wrong, some children with LDs are none the wiser and have no concept of their limitations. But DD1 (like many) knows enough to know that she's well behind the curve. She knows she can't read well at 14 and can't spell, and it hurts. Badly. That is no comparison to a child feeling frustrated, then going home and doing whatever fulfills them, because they can.

@sirfredfredgeorge

The first clue with DS1 was when his Reception teacher said at our first parents meeting that he was "Very, very academic"

And you took that as a positive that he was "top of the class"? Rather than, he has poor physical, social and emotional skills that we all need to work on?

Maybe it was how it was meant of course, but this is where what the teacher says, and what the parent hears can often be so different, the phrase does have multiple ways of taking it.

Academic doesn't mean "poor physical, social and emotional skills". If you think it does then you have some sort of preconceived ideas about academically able children.

My academic DD has very strong social and emotional skills. She has average physical skills, but some of her academic peers have above average physical skills too.

"Being the top of the class can make you as much of a special needs student as those who struggle."

This hasn't been my experience of having a top of the class child - though they do vary. I've had to request meetings with teachers to get more appropriate work for DD, sometimes multiple meetings before things improve. But I have been able to work with the school to fill in some of the gaps in provision too as a class teacher doesn't necessarily have time to discuss the deeper level concepts that DD can access.

This is nothing compared to some of the battles friends have had to get the needs of their child with special needs met. The hoops they have to jump through to get an EHCP. Being batted backwards and forwards between GP and school, neither willing to provide support until the child reached a crisis. Being permanently excluded for behaviour related to their special needs and inadequate support, then having to fight for a new placement somewhere.

Some children have special needs and are unusually able. Getting the right provision for those children will be hard. But for a "standard top of the class" 1 in 30 or 1 in 100 child with no special needs it just isn't the same.

When I was at school I was expected to do well but ended up with just 1 O level and that was grade 6. My daughter in her time at school was never in the top stream but ended up with really good exam results and now has a PhD in organic chemistry.

Few children are 'the' most able in all subjects, and areas of life; my sons GCSE Maths success in Y7 didn't help his practical ability to carry out basic self care tasks!

Which are most important???

All areas are important Sally. Sounds like there was no question your DS top of class in maths. Usually when people talk about top of class (a phrase which is mightily annoying me by this stage of the thread) there is an implied "at reading" "at maths" etc. It is often maths because it causes more of a problem in maths, or at reading in infant ages. In English you can just write a better poem if you're really good at writing.

In the first school I taught at, the report grades for each class were: Top Student, Upper, Middle, Lower!

I have two 'top of the year group' DC - one just finished primary school and one going in to to yr 5. DS had another boy who was just as strong in maths and a few who were 'up there' with them in maths and topic work. Clear strongest in spag, comprehension, writing and music. Lost two marks across all KS2 SATS mocks. Average in sport and art.
DD doesn't seem to have anyone even close in maths, spag, comprehension, writing, topic/general knowledge, or music. Art is subjective but she is one of the most developed. Average at sport.
There's likely to be some catching up in the next couple of years in maths and English as we're in a competitive grammar school area and a lot of people seem to get tutors.

Interestingly, DD and DS have been very similar to each other ability-wise (apart from DD more knowledgable on topic work). I now feel DD is losing interest in maths and I think it's because there's nobody in the year to challenge her to keep moving forward. I worry that she will shy aware from things that are difficult at high school.
I just think it's interesting what being 'top' can mean in one year compared to another. Same outstanding state school with great overall results.

DS starts high school in September and we have discussed how he may not be getting top scores from now on, as I think that can be a difficult transition factor.

To add, 'top of the year group' was not a phrase used! But teachers weren't shy about making it clear that was/is the case.

This 'top of the class' stuff is such crap. Everyone always thinks their child is top of the class. Hmmm

During Primary my dd excelled one year then coasted the next. Never once did any teacher discuss where she placed in the class. She was only ever measured against her own progress. Likewise for my ds.

Now DD is in Y10. Things shift on from 'top of the class' to 'gcse grades' and possible uni places. I know 2 insufferable parents who insist on telling me that their offspring are amazingly talented and have had special recognition texts from the head during lockdown. Thing is, I know at least 6 other pupils who have had the same including my own DD! I just keep quiet. One of the mums told me the other day that her ds was thinking about doing English at Oxbridge. My dd tells me he regularly gets 2's or 3's for English assignments.

It's all bullshit. Best not engage.

This 'top of the class' stuff is such crap. Everyone always thinks their child is top of the class. Hmmm

it's not. some kids are just much brighter academically and they often know it.

I have a DD who is top of the class and a DC at the very bottom.

I am fully aware of where both stand.

I was also top set in school and I knew it too. I think it is naive to assume that our DC don't know where they are on terms of ability in school.

@Milicentbystander72 you might have a point if someone though ALL thier children were top of the class. I have 3 children - only 1 who is “top of the class” academically. My other 2 are average but have thier own talents and skills which are arguably more useful and will stand them in better stead for real life!
Surely by your reasoning I would think all 3 of my darling children were top of the class!!!! In my experience people who tell others in real life that thier children are top of the class don’t have top of the class children. Those of us who do actually have that advanced child don’t brag about it in real life and only discuss it on anonymous forums like mumsnet

[quote BrieAndChilli]@Milicentbystander72 you might have a point if someone though ALL thier children were top of the class. I have 3 children - only 1 who is “top of the class” academically. My other 2 are average but have thier own talents and skills which are arguably more useful and will stand them in better stead for real life!
Surely by your reasoning I would think all 3 of my darling children were top of the class!!!! In my experience people who tell others in real life that thier children are top of the class don’t have top of the class children. Those of us who do actually have that advanced child don’t brag about it in real life and only discuss it on anonymous forums like mumsnet[/quote]
Ok I agree with a lot there. Of course I agree that some children are more advanced academically or have other talents.

I was referring more to people who say - "my child's teacher says he's TOP of the class'. I come from a family of teachers and they say they have never once said this to anyone. Of course teachers know how academically able each child is or can be, it's the labelling or vocalising of it that I'm specifically about.

Children change. Many advance in spurts with levels in between. I find it hard to swallow that there are teachers out there declaring firmly that a child is top of the class. Parents then take this as a co start definition.

I'm not saying that no child is actually top of the class. Keeping quite about it is probably right. I have had similar experience of parents who shout the loudest about what geniuses their children are often have fairly average children. I use 'average' not as an insult. I have 2 'average' children who occasionally excel in something. Like you, I don't really feel the need to tell anyone about it.