How exactly do you know your child is top of their class

[shadesofsun]

As per the title, I am curious as to how so many parents claims their child is top of the class, so who tells you that?

Are teachers really telling parents this or giving a hierarchy of where the children sit?

My DS teacher told me he was v gifted in maths when he was in year 1 and my DD has been on gifted and talented, and more able student lists for the last 3 years but I think the Gifted and talented lists are a bit because nearly all the kids get them and it's generally a different subject each year.
No ones ever told me they're top of the class and I've never thought they were.Theyre both fairly bright and get good reports (and grades) but I'm under no illusion that they're geniuses.

Because when you have their parents evening the teacher has only positive feedback about how well they are doing. Their report then confirms this as it says if they’re expected or exceeding in particular areas.

As they move up school they become aware of where they ‘are academically’ in the class and can pretty much tell which sets all they’d friends are in.

You know if your child is ‘one of’ the top of the class. I don’t think generally there will be one child that excels in every area, above all others, all the time (although not impossible).

There will likely be a handful of 3,4,5 that take it in turns to be top of the class over a course of a few months etc and some will be stronger in different areas at different times

If they are top of the class then if the opportunity arises to sit a grammar school entrance test, it would be assumed that they would pass it.

This is my experience of having a child that is ‘one of the’ top of the class. DC got working at greater depth in 2 key areas Maths at Reading and at 11 got 98% in a mock SAT. Teacher said DC is working at the age of a 14 year old in a particular area.

DC is not gifted. Just gets it and clicks

BTW I have another child with SEN and my experience for this DC is very very different as they struggle at school terribly

My two year old's parents' evening included the wording "Name is really at the very top of the ability range for language for age 2-3, and that is not taking account the fact that Name is bilingual".

I drew my own conclusions.

I think you can get a sense of child's ability but to of class seems unrealistic. I have dc at other ends. Ds struggles. They never said anything negative but his feedback was all about working to achieve expected standards. Dd is the other end. Her feedback is all about how she is exceeding expectations overall but we still talk about what she is working on and needs to focus on. Eg in discussion teacher said dd will exceed expectations for writing by year end and then told me what elements of her hand writing she needs to work on.

Dd knows shes nearer the top because of her reading level etc. Ds knows he at the bottom for same reason. But neither is ever told or expected to be "top of" of "bottom of".

In Ds1’s class, groups were all named after shapes. The top group was called the squares. Properly amused me.

Top of the class surely means lots of different things? My 7 year old DS can read anything you put in front of him, and his memory and comprehension is off the scale. He reads for around 3 hours a night. If you ask him a question about the book he can not only answer, but point you straight to the page that references it.

He is obsessed with animals and knows more about them than any adult I know, to the point that he can sit with a zookeeper and have an intelligent informed conversation.

He can't remember his number bonds from 1-10. Can't remember his times tables at all. Still writes most numbers back to front and his handwriting is barely legible.

I find that teachers tell you, but teachers also tell you where they are not doing so well and many parents never mention that bit.

One of my girls is immense at maths. She was working two years ahead by Y3. However, she struggled in many other areas (including her maturity) and that eventually became an issue because she needed good language skills to explain and understand the maths properly. Another child who was also advanced in maths was similar. All his mother ever did was talk loudly about how amazing he was at maths. She bragged constantly even though her child actually seriously struggled in many, many areas.

When I was at school all our work was marked alphabetically so getting those marks in every school book helped. In some subjects I tended to get mostly Bs and in a couple I'd be annoyed if I got C+ because it meant that I was slipping from the B- I'd got the week before. It made me pull my finger out and work harder.

In end-of-term maths tests etc, you would not only get the actual mark eg: 62/80, you would also get the percentage, and your ranking in the class (4/37 for instance).

You knew where you stood, and so did your parents.

I found it extremely frustrating to be told nothing like that at all when my dc were at school, and just be told that my dc were 'meeting targets' or whatever.
It basically told me nothing about how well they were doing, and whether they could do with extra help at home from us. Especially irritating when you were sent a maths test they'd done which had elementary mistakes in it, which you thought they would have been able to answer easily, having been lulled into a false sense of security by the 'meeting target' nonsense.

My daughter was in bottom set for most things in primary, she walked out of academy with 6 Nat 5, 5 highers and an adv higher and is in 2nd year of a degree. Those parents that were shouting about being in top set for everything, have struggled at most things in adult life. It’s not all about being the best is it?!

I remember 1 year about 5 parents from dc1's class posted on facebook that the teacher had told them at parents evening that their dc was top of the class. Everyone knows which is the bottom table because that's where the class TA sits.

All of my DC’s schools set work right from reception in different bands, let’s call them band 1, 2, 3 - if you look at twinkl you see the differentiated worksheets too 1 star, 2 star, 3 star. For example, year 1 is told to go straight to star 3 to do his work in all academic subjects and this applies to the whole “top Set”. Their reading bands are totally different as well. The year 6 is expected to do all the extension tasks in all subjects especially maths. The year 4 is actually taught in a top maths set across the year which works 1-2 years ahead and at greater speed but there is also a lot of greater depth style investigation work. At secondary top streams are also accelerated especially in subjects such as maths and languages to take GCSEs earlier in some schools. I would never go around saying my dc are top of the class but I know they are in the top sets in academic subjects. Realistically nobody is top of the year across all subjects - nobody is going to be the very best at sports, music, maths, English, art, languages, science, history, etc etc

Genuinely, it will not be difficult to know if your child is “top of the class” as they will win academic prizes, they will get full marks in tests, they will finish all homework easily and without support, they will score level 6 in year 6 SATS and at parents evening the teachers will say things like “...,is doing exceptionally well”. “She is really quite gifted”. Yes the teacher may well say “..,,is streets ahead of the rest of the class”

I have 3 children. One of them is genuinely academically gifted and was “top of the class”. It was not at all difficult to work it out. As per above.

Nor was it difficult to work out that one of my other children was average academically and that the other was very bright but dyslexic.

None of this was a code. It was all fairly plainly laid out.

My parents were told that I would be given extension work to challenge me and asked a lot about what I liked to read. They were given a recommendation of books and told to get me a library pass as the books in the primary school library were not challenging enough. My parents were told to have me sit the 11+.

I realised because I was the first kid in my class to learn my times tables up to 12. That was back in the day where you had to stand up and recite them in front of the whole class (I was a shy child and remember being confident because I knew them).

I don't think schools would tell you now, is there not more of an emphasis on children reaching their own targets rather than comparing them to each other?

It is pretty irrelevant where your child is compared to others in the class. The only thing that matters is where your child sits relative to the rest of the national cohort that they will be competing against at GCSE and A Level. Grade boundaries are adjusted each year so that very broadly the distribution of grades is the same year to year.

It means shit all.
I have a huge regard for teachers but usually they have no understanding of life outside education.

I knew because DC told me. There are no secrets with kids. DC1 knew him and 3 other classmates were constantly rivalling for top place. They sat in a table together for 7 years from reception to leaving primary. Sometimes one of them got the highest marks, then the other. It kept all three of them driven until they split off to their respective secondary schools. DC2 was equally aware she was bang in the middle of her class, would never be last but equally would never be top.

Reports, parents evenings, getting a special award every year, and taking GCSE's early and beating the top students a year above her. That was one of my six DC. The others are a mix of very able, average and SEN, so it was easy to spot the outstanding one.

That's what his teacher said. She said she'd never had a child work it out before grin

She lied. The kids always know which are the top and bottom tables.

It's hasn't been considered good practice to seat children on ability tables in primary schools for a few years now.

Because she got 120 across the board in y6 Sats. Difficult to beat.

The kids know. Don't think they really care.

At primary school my main points were
Can walk from home
Nurturing, building confidence etc. Academic stuff was secondary. I mean I wouldn't have wanted to send them to a school with real problems but round here they are all ok so fine.

I know they are clever because they always said so. I never brought it up. I was more interested in if they were happy, making friends etc.

DD1 especially. Same every year through primary. Now at secondary last parents evening was funny/ silly as each one we saw (bar PE and drama) said well she's very clever works really hard please can she do this GCSE

BUT I'm like ok great but does she have many friends? Is she happy? She has always played things close to the chest. I wanted to talk to her form teacher but apparently that doesn't happen.

And that is what I want to know. Yes she's clever yes she works hard but is she happy? I KNOW she's shy. I know she avoids pairing with other children in eg CDT or whatever it's called now. And works on her own. The teacher put this down to focus and confidence. Said she's brilliant! The answers she gives to questions are 3 steps on in where I'm leading.

But. Is she happy? I'm not finding out.

In context. I was quite clever. I went to a clever school. There were girls there who had really major issues going on. No pastoral care. All that mattered was grades.

In the world of work TBH it's a mix of things that gets success, not just being academically good.

In short. Lots of kids are clever. Lots of kids work hard. In the end it's a combination of being able to get on with people, being able to persuade people, putting the work in when it's needed, and a desire to succeed, as well as having a reasonable but not necessarily massive amount of intellect, that gets you somewhere.

I mean unless you want to go and work at CERN or NASA or something but even there you need to be able to get on with people :D

(I wanted to work at CERN or NASA :D hence those examples!).

There is no such actual thing as ‘top of the class’, surely?

There is top in various tests
Subject prizes
Various awards
External exams

And it may be that a child scores consistently higher than anyone else across all these.

But if you add in art, drama, sport, different languages, then the picture may or may not be as consistent.

I don’t think schools designate anyone ‘top of the class’ overall, do they?

@elliejjtiny.

One of my BFFs children has Asperger’s syndrome. He had an assigned TA from age 11 to completing hformis exceptionally gifted at maths

@spanieleyes

All the children, from about year 2 upwards can put the rest of the class in ability order and will pretty much get it right!

Are you telling me I'm not that special to have figured out in P1 (Reception) that the Yellow Group got the reading books after the Red Group?

In P3 the teacher merged the top Lions with the Tigers in the group below.

BTW The girl in P1 who was picking her own books was no where near top of Class by P7.

I'm actually surprised other posters don't remember working it out in their own classes.
More difficult to work it out in Secondary.

DS couldn't read when he started reception and is Aug born so my expectations weren't high and he was always shattered. About yr4 the Head cornered me in the playground & told me in words of one syllable.
At secondary they do MIDYIS. I didn't share DS's scores with him in yr7 which were reasonably high (not off the scale) but in yr9 a teacher had a session with a class about aspirations etc and they were all given opportunity to ask/share theirs. DS came home and told me where it put him in the year. In yr10 the maths teacher came straight out with it at parents' evening which rather surprised me as I hadn't asked.

To be clear I have never mentioned it to friends or family in terms like that - he's not A* in every subject!