To ask your opinion on slapping kids as discipline?

[Sizedoesmatter]

Just curious to see what the general opinion is on using slapping or 'spanking' (I despise that word) children?

Mine is a very hard no. I don't agree with it in the slightest and I hate the argument of 'I was slapped and I turned out fine', in my opinion you didn't, because if you turned out fine you wouldn't be slapping your children. However 3 seperate sets of parents out of our friend group do use slapping as discipline, so it's obviously still quite common.

Is it ever OK to slap a child? Do you think it's an effective form of discipline? I got my fair share of whacks with the brush off the dustpan and brush or the wooden spoon. I can remember running from the house one day when my mother grabbed the sweeping brush during an argument. Can't say those experiences done me any good. Others may think different?

This is the problem with MN the boat is rocked as soon as some people do not agree to disagree. People take things completely out of context and start to be deliberately obtuse.

Back in the days children didn’t feel so comfortable to speak to people in a rude manner why was this?

I am from "from back in the days" it was because they lived in fear of physical punishment.

The problem is some parents who are too lazy to teach their children properly how to behave and respect, not because they don't smack them.

No, no hitting, smacking, slapping, whatever you want to call it. I have smacked my DS in the past, which I’m not proud of, but I’ve not done it for many years.

I used to get hit when I was a kid, sometimes with a slipper or other object, and I resent it massively. My XH was also violent towards both me and DS. I have done a lot of work on myself unlearning what I was taught about violence and it stops with me.

Also, I’m not having my DS learning that it’s ever acceptable to hit someone, or be hit by them. I was taught when I was a kid that if I got hit I deserved it, and my dad, who usually did the hitting, was justified in doing it if he said he was, which in turn lead me to accept it from my XH. My dad was not justified in hitting me, and neither was my XH, and neither was I when I did it.

I have never and will never smack my children. It shows a total loss of control, and if you're not in control you shouldn't have vulnerable people, such as children, in your care, imo.

I don't smack and would be horrified if I saw someone else doing it as it seems to me that the parent is generally hitting the child due to their own frustration and loss of control but I do believe that there is a difference between smacking a child on the bum for being naughty as a last resort and beating them up.

I also find the narriative around it being abuse interesting as physical punishment is used universally in the animal kingdom and we use animals as an example of attachment parenting e.g. why its normal to co sleep/ breastfeed responsively etc. but animals routinely nip and swat at their young if they get out of line and up until the last 100 years or so children have always been disciplined by smacking as well.

The complete lack of discipline is the same as neglect in my eyes.

It's not an either or situation though, it's not kids are smacked or kids running feral.

If the two do overlap at some point it's because some of the kids that are smacked or worse will also be the ones acting out. Funnily a lot of the parents that do that aren't too happy about someone else disciplining their child.

Can anyone suggest how I deal with my DD when she is hitting, punching, kicking and screaming at me? Geuinine question. If anyone read my previous post I said she is being assessed for autism, she often has these episodes of screaming and hitting me. She outright refuses to do things like naughty step or time out, no interest in sticker/reward charts. And also as I said in my pp, I did once hit her after she slapped me in the face and I felt awfully guilty after. But it did work. The shock stopped her. I haven't made a habit of it and don't want to, but sometimes feel at my wit's end. If something sets her off, she follows me around the house screaming at me and hitting me. If I say I'm taking a toy away from her the screaming and hitting increases. I've also tried hugging her to calm her and it makes thing worse too. I really would like advice if anyone has any. I do my best to avoid it reaching the stage where the screaming and attacking begins, but it's not always possible to avoid.

Aoifeaye

There are many techniques

Create a space where she can rage safely

Barrel hug her with arms and legs to hold her limbs (reserve this for times you are worried she will hurt herself or another child)

Love bomb her when she is behaving well

Set aside some time each day with undivided focus where she directs the play entirely.

Figure out her currency. Everyone has something. Use it for rewards.

Learn what sets her off and figure out techniques to help calm her down before things get bad. Therapists can really help on the techniques, but you know your kid. Trust your gut.

Pick your battles. Decide what rules matter and what rules don’t. Every child is different and sometimes you need to meet them where they are, not where you want them to be.

Separate the task from you. If there is something like getting ready for bed that tends to create problems, create a flip chart with all the steps. Now instead of you being the person giving orders, the flip chart is simply guiding the steps.

Justmemyself

I'm not sure it's helpful to compare to animals. Violence is a routine part of life for many animals (males fighting to prove rank etc). While some humans fight each other on the streets we don't exactly want a society where physical scraps are an accepted way of conflict resolution.

Hitting children might've been the norm for many decades, but surely we try to progress as civilisation as we become more enlightened?

Morally, how can it be right to hit a vulnerable person? Would people who smack their kids also condone smacking their grandparent with Alzheimers with challenging behaviour, or an adult with the mental age of a child who acts accordingly? I think we would agree that it would be very wrong.

Hitting wives was also the norm for a long time. Are we going to pontificate about whether they're hardier or happier now than then, as if that's in any way relevant?

Hitting kids teaches kids to hit.

As much as there are times where my son drives me spare. I would never hit him. I class it as assault if it was an adult it would be. I don't know how people can.

It's not ok at all. Firstly, why do people want to condition their children in to doing/not doing things through fear? That shit shakes you up for life and you don't suddenly grow out of that when you aren't a child any more.

Secondly, it teaches children that violence is ok in certain circumstances, which is the opposite of what we should teach them.

Finally, I know so many parents that scream at their children 'HOW DARE YOU HIT MUMMY' when their kids lash out during an argument. Hey, maybe lead by example and don't hit them? Why is it ok for adults to smack when they are angry, but not children? Children don't know how to express extreme emotions properly and need help and guidance to do so. One rule for adults and one for kids (when it comes to smacking) is not ok.

In my experience, people that smack their children regularly have never been taught communication skills or are a bit thick, maybe a bit old fashioned so these things are passed on through generations of bad communicators with limited empathetic ability.

'Hitting kids teaches kids to hit.'

So does confiscation of toys teach kids to steal, or sending a child to their room teach them to ostracise other children?

'Secondly, it teaches children that violence is ok in certain circumstances, which is the opposite of what we should teach them.'

So, is violence never OK, regardless of provocation?

Smacking/not smacking is cultural, whether people want to believe it or not.

I don't think we want to reintroduce smacking and it really is not acceptable now, but, equally, I don't think a lot of 'modern' parents parent any better than their own parents and grandparents, who did smack. It is the smug superiority, based on zero actual evidence, that grates.

Can anyone suggest how I deal with my DD when she is hitting, punching, kicking and screaming at me? Geuinine question. If anyone read my previous post I said she is being assessed for autism

Huge amounts of praise when she does do things well

If she leaves time out, stick her back in it. If she has to be in time out for 2 minutes, and she leaves, put her back in and that time restarts at 0 minutes. After some repetition, she will figure out that the more she leaves, the further away her freedom gets. Create a safe time out zone where she can kick off it she wants to, bean bags and things, being tested for suspected autistism if she does lash out she is less likely to hurt herself. She comes out of time out when she is calm only.

What is she willing to change her behaviour for? Access to, or loss of access to, toys? Tv? A chocolate button? (I've seen people make reward charts from chocolate buttons to help the kids get the idea and then they switch to stickers later, seeing the actual reward is helpful).

I think it is fucking disgusting. It is abuse of power, and there a million ways to constructively discipline your children without using pain. It teaches children that violence is acceptable.

It boggles the mind that it is legal to hit an innocent child, but illegal to hit an adult.

So, is violence never OK, regardless of provocation?

If a parent smacked a child I would back the child if they hit back in self defence. Nobody has to be the first one to hit, and as their care givers, we should not be teaching children that violence is the answer whwn you are in a disagreement.

If you were to hit another adult (not in self defence) it is assault.

If you are to hit your partner, it is assault.

If you hit your elderly relative with dementia, it is assault.

All of which you get prison time for. So why is it remotely ok to punish children with physical discipline?

So does confiscation of toys teach kids to steal, or sending a child to their room teach them to ostracise other children?

No. It teaches that actions have consequences. If you misbehave, you lose access to a toy. If you behave well, you get access to it. If you're having a hissy fit and can't be reasoned with, you go to your room until you have calmed down, and will resume talking when you are not in an extreme emotional place.

Taking away an iPad cannot be compared to stealing when the parent has bought it in the first place.

It is the smug superiority, based on zero actual evidence, that grates.

If you research it there is a lot of evidence in regards to the psychological effects of physical discipline. Conditioning to think you deserved to be hit, compliance through fear and damage that does to self esteem.

Imagine a man/woman is in an abusive relationship. Their partner hits them and gaslights them, saying you made me do that to you because of x reason. If they've been conditioned in to fear based compliance and also thinking they deserved to be hit, they will probably roll over and take it for many years until either they question it and try and summon the courage to leave, until somebody points it out, or until something worse happens to them.

Somebody who has been taught that it has never ok to hit somebody (unless in self defence) is much less likely to do so. They are also less likely to be physically violent themselves.

So, is violence never OK, regardless of provocation?

Larrygrylls, the idea that you'd hit a kid not to discipline it, but because it had provoked you, is fucking chilling.

How often do women come on here saying their partners have hit them? Is 'you provoked him' ever, EVER, a valid response?

Self-defence is a separate thing, but I expect the situations where a parent has to hit their child back to avoid worse harm to themselves is vanishingly rare. I'm mystified why the phrase is coming up in a conversation about corporal punishment of kids.

All of which you get prison time for. So why is it remotely ok to punish children with physical discipline?

The answer, when you boil it down, is because the parent can get away with it. The exact reason why some men beat their wives. One is no better than the other.

This is a useful thread in a way. It reminds of some of the BLM threads which have helped illuminate that there are, unfortunately, plenty of racist arseholes still out there. In the same way, this shows just how many parents are still willing to belt their kids.

Swirly,

Considering you are looking for consistency in the way adults treat adults vs the way adults treat children.

'No. It teaches that actions have consequences. If you misbehave, you lose access to a toy. If you behave well, you get access to it. If you're having a hissy fit and can't be reasoned with, you go to your room until you have calmed down, and will resume talking when you are not in an extreme emotional place.

Taking away an iPad cannot be compared to stealing when the parent has bought it in the first place.'

Losing an access to a toy is not a 'consequence', it is a punishment, no more or less so than smacking. If a child refuses to go out of the house to school, for instance, there is no natural correlation between this and losing a toy.

Re your IPad example, I think it is awful that a child would believe that his continued ownership was contingent upon behaviour. So, in your eyes, is the Ipad merely loaned, rather than a gift? As, if it is a gift, it is the receiver's in law, and taking it back is theft (and you can go to jail for it if you do it to another adult).

It is the smug superiority, based on zero actual evidence, that grates. It's not a question of "smug superiority" It's about not hurting children - humans who can't defend themselves.

Once when my son was being really badly behaved my husband told me to give him a smack on the hand and at first I refused but then when I got desperate I tried it and though I didn’t hurt him at all it felt so horrible. My parents used corporal punishment that was more like child abuse (beat me with a stick, threw me at a wall). It has taken me a long time to feel OK with even knowing that I have the same blood as them. I never wanted to be anything like them and then suddenly I felt like I was. My son was so forgiving and I really felt like I didn’t deserve it. I would never ever ever do it again.

larrygrylls, I'm not sure if you seriously think these things, or if you're just being contrarian. If the latter, it's misjudged.

If it's not, your casual acceptance of violence against the defenceless makes me want to fucking puke.

No I would never hit

I think I bored dc into behaving.

If they did mis behave I would get down to their level and slowly explain why you shouldn’t do what they had done and the consequences and dangers they could put themselves or other people in by doing what they did.

On the whole I think a 5 minute talk was worth more than the naughty step.

Ds has ADHD and Dd ADD so I didn’t worry too much about their behaviour. As long as they were not disturbing other people then it was fine.
If they wanted to run around the supermarket then they could. I would ask them to get things for me that I knew were on the lower shelves. They needed a lot of exercise.
Dd does a job now where she can work anything up to 16 hours and do anything from 27000 to sometimes 45000 steps in a day.
Ds is similar. I could never imagine them doing a job which involved a lot of sitting down,