Why are posters sometimes so vile on Mumsnet?

[Betchetybetch]

This place can seem quite hostile at times. The way some posters speak to others is sometimes quite vile. I’ve been here for 3 years, and I have seen many a head-tilty post along the lines of:

‘OP, you seem like hard work.’

‘OP, you need to give your head a wobble.’

‘I’m sorry but you have brought this on yourself.’

‘You need to need to look at your parenting decisions.’

And my most recent favourite: ‘OP, you sound like a peach.’ What does that even mean?

I know it’s the internet, but really, what is to be gained from posting things like this? Why does the age old, ‘if you you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything’ not apply to online communication?

I imagine you’ll ask why I don’t just leave, I’m planning to after this thread, as this is just not the experience I signed up for. Just looking to get some insight as to why it’s like this here before I go.

Let the pile on commence!

Betchetybetch well you didn't take your own advice did you.

Welcome to the Internet. Nice reminder that some things haven't changed in the 40 years I've been on it.

MN is definitely the only place I have seen this level of personal insults.

Really? I've seen worse in arguments about what programming language to use.

Stick around for a while and you'll figure out what works and what doesn't.

I'd far rather people spoke plainly, rather than pussyfoot about trying to put a positive slant on everything!

@equuscaballus

Do you see the difference between disagreeing with someone, and verbally abusing them?

I could easily say "I think [ person X ] is an idiot for saying that", but that's not disagreeing, that's labelling.

Also- forgot to say that sometimes you have to just laugh about the ridiculousness of it. I once posted about a skin cream that I wanted to try it and got told to "get a life" and get out more (during lockdown no less 😆). I had to chuckle at that because it was so unnecessarily nasty and angry that it was actually rather funny.

I think YABU and all the examples you have given of MNers being vile just sound like things the OP needs to be told but just doesn’t want to hear.

Too many snowflakes these days. If you’re hurt by words on a screen then that is your own issue that you need to fix.

I always feel like I'm walking on egg shells and rewrite my posts several times to make sure I haven't said anything that could possibly wind someone up the wrong way. I probably have just by posting this one.

And if the insult happens early enough into the thread then the majority of other posters will pile in to agree, and the OP’s real issue will be completely overlooked.

Oh this is very true. I have noticed this a lot. The tone of the overall response tends to be influenced by any vehement post early on. I think probably once a few people have posted with very strong views in one direction then some people are put off giving an opposing view in case they get jumped on.

OP sometimes people just need telling straight.

I agree, I just don't think insulting someone has the desired effect.

And if the insult happens early enough into the thread then the majority of other posters will pile in to agree, and the OP’s real issue will be completely overlooked.

It's like people are waiting for licence to be nasty. It's the same as the mean girl it school being a bully towards someone then all the hangers on want to have a go.

Even if a poster says something silly, stupid, offence or that you just don't agree with. It 5 people have already called them out on it, what is the need for another 55 people to do the same?

I think the OPs point is that you can disagree with people and also tell them something negative without being rude! Jumping in with " well aren't you a peach" sarcastically doesn't help anyone!

The examples you gave can hardly be described as 'vile', OP. At most they are a bit snarky or harsh. And given without context, it's hard to tell - they might have been responding to an unpleasant attitude from an OP.

Btw, the 'peach' thing isn't an MNism. It's a pretty normal expression. A real peach of a deal/holiday/person etc means a really good one. So using it sarcastically obviously means the opposite.

Why does the age old, ‘if you you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything’ not apply to online communication?

Good question. I don't know either but I am old enough to remember when it was mostly geeky blokes with no social skills and we thought online communication would get nicer if more women joined in.

How we laugh about that now.

@blacksax
I'm a regular poster on half a dozen forums, and it's sad to say that MN is the only place I ever see anything like this. Oddly enough though, it is also the only forum I'm a member of that allows people to namechange.
Whether that has something to do with it, I don't know.

At least mumsnet is moderated which I think removes the worst excesses.

Years ago I joined a forum that wasn't and it descended in to chaos. It was a local forum, originally intended to spark debate about local issues but got completely taken over by a handful of raving right wing nutters, although it soon became apparent that one individual was responsible for many of the posts because he was running lots of sock puppets. The atmosphere was so hostile and bullying that eventually most sensible people left. I have visions that it was left with this one ranting idiot and his sock puppets just chatting to each other all day and turning on anybody else who went near!

I dunno, but it's good to have thick skin through life in general.

They're no different to any other arseholes on the internet. Hiding behind a keyboard. Or a smart phone, y'know.

I'm a regular poster on half a dozen forums, and it's sad to say that MN is the only place I ever see anything like this.

Really? Netmums is very passive aggressive ,plus the added frustration of not being able to swear. They sure do wish they could call SS on eachother a lot.

FB can be brutal ... from local groups to disability groups.

Reddit and twitter are a cesspit of anger,hatred and violence.

A few more I'm on are indeed ok, definitely nicer AS LONG AS you toe the party line otherwise you're fair game including for the mods.

There's blunt disagreeing (e.g. I completely disagree with you) and there's insulting people (e.g. all the examples the OP offered). The first is fine. The second isn't and doesn't support proper exploration. I'm glad you raised this OP as some people don't seem to be able to disagree politely! And it's hard work!

People are allowed to disagree but I dislike the personal attacks.

Aren't we told to criticise behaviour, not the child?

The OP mentioned the "aren't you a peach". The one I've commented on twice recently is the "aren't you a ray of sunshine". Usually used by someone who has lost the argument.

If you dislike or disagree with something, say so and say why. But don't say nasty things because you are hiding behind a keyboard.

And there's never a justification to call someone the c word either.

I changed my username as a result of a very unpleasant thread where I asked for help about a family relationship. Some of the things a couple of people said made me feel actually shaky and sick, as if I had been physically attacked.

But even at that bad time, I was still aware that the freedom of speech on Mumsnet is what I value most. Having spent much of my life either walking on eggshells or finding out months later that a casual, throwaway tactless remark had deeply upset someone and they never want to speak to me again, the joy of being able to say 'your whole argument sounds like a bunch of pathetic excuses, you obviously can't stand your stepchildren' or 'I can't believe you're still living with a cocklodger like that - kick him out!' without having to self-censor to avoid upsetting people is priceless in my opinion.

I don't go out of my way to offend vulnerable, sensitive people, and AFAIK if another person does so, other posters report them quickly or tend to pile in to defend the OP and tell the meanie to keep their big mouth shut!

My name change was my way of saying, "Fuck it! Bring on the criticism! I'm not gonna take it seriously unless I choose to."

FB can be brutal ... from local groups to disability groups

Yes it is and it's not anonymous, either!

So many people love the pile-on and actively seek to do it. If only they wouldn't hide their enjoyment behind "but, but I'm offering constructive criticism and if they don't like it, well, shrug..."

Nope. Of course there are decent constructive posts on some threads. But many a time, it's a pile-on designed to upset the OP not improve their perspective.

As I said earlier in the thread, readers of Mumsnet love this for the entertainment they get from it. Mumsnet loves this because of the advertising revenue from the eyeballs.

I don't know either but I am old enough to remember when it was mostly geeky blokes with no social skills and we thought online communication would get nicer if more women joined in

I remember being quite shocked by the rudeness on the DMOZ forums (DMOZ was a directory of websites, in the very late 90s and early 00s) and thought it was a US thing to be so rude on the net.

Ha ha I got that wrong.

The posters who deliberately insult do it just because they want to, it wouldn't matter what you wrote about.

It only takes one of them to insult , the rest pile on like sheep , you can almost see them rubbing their hands with excitement.

They wouldn't do it in real life , anonymity on the internet spurs them on.