Why are posters sometimes so vile on Mumsnet?

[Betchetybetch]

This place can seem quite hostile at times. The way some posters speak to others is sometimes quite vile. I’ve been here for 3 years, and I have seen many a head-tilty post along the lines of:

‘OP, you seem like hard work.’

‘OP, you need to give your head a wobble.’

‘I’m sorry but you have brought this on yourself.’

‘You need to need to look at your parenting decisions.’

And my most recent favourite: ‘OP, you sound like a peach.’ What does that even mean?

I know it’s the internet, but really, what is to be gained from posting things like this? Why does the age old, ‘if you you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything’ not apply to online communication?

I imagine you’ll ask why I don’t just leave, I’m planning to after this thread, as this is just not the experience I signed up for. Just looking to get some insight as to why it’s like this here before I go.

Let the pile on commence!

You also get to know the handles of those who you just know are going to get their knickers in a twist, and how, and basically play bingo at their 'clever' responses. Or a drinking game. Except you could end up well and truly hammered, for every 'give your head a wobble' remark some of them make!

I think part of it is that so much attention is focused on AIBU (because it’s entertaining to read, and to some degree, participate in) that some of us, including me, forget that it isn’t the whole of Mumsnet – hence why you so often read completely unrelated requests for help/information prefaced by “Posting here for traffic” (not a criticism of the choice to do that; it’s perfectly reasonable in the circumstances).

That means that when you want to start a thread about something just vaguely quirky or interesting, even light-hearted, that may not be anything to do with a personal AIBU-type situation, you may well feel that there’s no point burying it somewhere where it won’t really be noticed or read. But after posting it in AIBU you get people replying belligerently, apparently just spoiling for a fight. There are some seriously grouchy people on here.

Maybe what needs to happen is for the rest of the forum to get bigger (as in get more participation, rather than more subdivisions) and leave AIBU to people who are robust enough not to mind being on the receiving end of that sort of thing. Personally I wouldn’t want to post anything genuinely controversial or deeply personal and get torn to shreds.

“You are a peach” is a comment that can be a compliment or an insult, depending on the tone you use. If the tone or context is sarcastic, it is an insult.

To answer your question, @Betchetybetch, MN is a public website that anyone can join, so is likely to contain a fair cross section of society - nice and nasty - so there is bound to be a certain number of more abrasive posts.

We do also have a reputation for plain speaking, and sometimes posts that are particularly blunt may stray across the line into nasty territory, but I do think that, in most cases, people are trying to be honest, rather than gratuitously unpleasant.

I also believe that the good on MN hugely outweighs any unpleasant posters/posts. The amount of support that people get during pregnancy and birth, with baby feeding and weaning, with education, with mental health issues, with special needs, bereavement etc is huge.

The MN Woolly Hugs project is a great example of this. It started as a way to offer some comfort to a MNer whose 2-year-old died following brain surgery. We all knitted squares, which were put together into a blanket to send to the family, as a tangible demonstration of comfort. By the time the closing date for those squares arrived, the coordinator had enough squares for two blankets and, as it happened, another MNer lost her husband, so a second blanket was made for her.

It became something we did, if a MNer died, or if the MNer lost their spouse or a child - I think it was me who described it as like sending someone a woolly hug - hence the name. The project has grown out of all belief, and we now make blankets for children in hospital, for refugees, for cancer patients, for sick children in Africa, and even little blankets that are used to wrap premature babies who don’t survive. Nothing can make that last situation any better, but if there is nothing appropriate to use to wrap the baby, they can get given to the parents wrapped in a towel or some sheeting, and that could make a terrible situation a bit worse - hence these blankets, which are called Angel Hugs (The blankets for children in hospitals are Little Hugs, and those for women u deer going cancer treatment are Candy Hugs - named for a MNer whose battle with breast cancer inspired these particular blankets).

I think disagreeing with someone's point or debating their view is absolutely great, but there is NO need to get personal. Ever. As soon as your argument resorts to personal insults, you have lost. If you can't explain to someone why you think they are wrong without calling them an idiot, then you need to learn to communicate and argue better.

I think there are some nasty posters on here. I recently had one where I said I was finally relieved to make a very difficult decision to put my tenanted flat on the market in the hope to sell to a btl investor and had 5 pages of people telling me what an awful, horrible person I was for not putting my tenants before myself. It had been a difficult decision for me and I felt awful about it and it didn't help but I had to do what was right for my family. Thankfully its under offer with a btl person so hopefully that will go through.

I've also seen others e.g. A woman struggle to breastfeed and having people bad mouth her for it.

But then I've had amazing experiences on here of people being super supportive including my ama thread on Judaism which people were super supportive and interested and then others jumped on it to answer the 14 pages of questions I got

‘if you you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything’

Many times on here people are unnecessarily cruel but I do really hate this cliche with a passion. It just reminds me too much of the way in which girls and women are schooled to be "nice", to not speak out about things which are frightening or harmful or wrong - just be a good little girl and only say nice things.

I think that it is an immensely damaging saying which is designed to stifle debate, critical thinking, and exposing of vice and abuse.

The #TimesUp women didn't have anything nice to say about their rapists and abusers. I imagine those men who were called to account would have loved your edict of "don't say anything".

We're women, we're supposed to be "nice". hmm Men are encouraged to be Strong, Good Leaders, authoritative. Women are decried as Bossy Harridans. Why is that? I wonder if MN would have the same reputation if it wasn't primarily used by women?

Nice doesn't mean always agreeing. We should definitely have debates and disagree. But getting personal and using emotive language and nasty insults is the sort of thing that makes this forum look so juvenile and a bit of a joke on the internet. Male dominated forums have just as much argument, but less personal insults from what I've noticed.

I reported one yesterday that was a despicable attack on a vulnerable poster and utterly appalling. Thankfully MNHQ acted quickly, and I dare say I wasn't the only one to report it by a long shot.

People say things on here that they would never dream of saying out loud to somebody in real life. Well... apart from the scum of the earth that is, but thankfully they are few and far between IRL.

If you think this is bad, don't go near Twitter or Reddit.

And I've never had support on here, just massive pile-ons calling me unhinged and hard work, this is the last place on earth I'd ask for support to be honest. I go on here for entertainment.

But, this isn't "netmums" hun !

Sometimes someone's head is so far up their own arse, they need a brutal honest comment to make them think and wake them up a little.

If someone's being a tit, being softly softly isn't going to help them realise they're being a tit. Telling them to stop being a tit works wonders though.

@5foot5

Do you think this is a uniquely mumsnet thing though? Isn't it just a characteristic of many anonymous forums and therefore prevalent on all social media.

I don't do twitter but can't avoid seeing quotes that have come from there and it seems people can be utterly vile to other people when they know they cannot be identified.

AIBU is a strange beast I think because sometimes it can be sympathetic, supportive, funny and intelligent. Other times it is just people sticking the boot in. Perhaps safest to say that if you want to post somewhere for uncritical support no matter what then this is not the right place!

I'm a regular poster on half a dozen forums, and it's sad to say that MN is the only place I ever see anything like this. Oddly enough though, it is also the only forum I'm a member of that allows people to namechange. Whether that has something to do with it, I don't know.

I follow a blogger on Instagram who discussed on her stories last night the vitriol that is directed and her and her family and friends on a gossip website. There are threads dedicated to particular bloggers. What is being said is absolutely vile. The examples you have given OP don’t even touch the sides of what these nasty, nasty people are saying.
People forget that there is a real human being at the receiving end of those comments.

OP, you seem like hard work

Do you really think that this statement is "vile" and "hostile"?

I think a lot of it is just idle chit chat and unfiltered opinion. As I said on your other thread, OP, you have to be careful what you throw out there for discussion because not everyone is going to respond kindly, particularly if people are bored and looking for something to get their teeth into.

I think people on the internet generally are more unkind to people than they would be in real life - if you can't see and will never meet the person you're talking to, you're far more likely to be mean, sometimes without even thinking about it. It's hard to empathise with a username.

If someone's being a tit, being softly softly isn't going to help them realise they're being a tit. Telling them to stop being a tit works wonders though

Really? If people tell me what exactly they think I have done wrong, and why, I will take it on board. If someone just slings an insult, I will scroll past and just think that person is not capable of adult conversation.

MN is definitely the only place I have seen this level of personal insults. Namechanging definitely doesn't help, you can say nasty things under one identity then change so no-one remembers you. On other forums people upvote/downvote your entire profile based on your comments so if you constantly say nasty shit, your comments won't even show, or people will see your rating and give you a wide berth. No accountability on here whatsoever as it's so anonymous.

Oddly enough though, it is also the only forum I'm a member of that allows people to namechange.
Whether that has something to do with it, I don't know.

I think the name change facility is part of the problem. I wouldn't be surprised if some people on here name change back and fourth to have an argument with themselves.

I imagine the nasty posters to be mousey little women who won't say boo to a goose.

Give them a keyboard and they get all brave and nasty.
I wonder if they get pleasure from causing other users upset.

I agree OP and it can be v upsetting. I don’t expect people to agree wholeheartedly with everything but there is really no need to get so nasty and personal, especially when you are really desperate for a bit of help.

I can see both sides.

Sometimes the OP will post something thats completely unreasonable and unkind or incredibly entitled and just expects everyone to mass agree with them. I dont think its wrong to call out that kind of behaviour. I also find people post all sorts of furious rants over really petty, trivial things. I remember once someone posted a vitriolic rant over people being too nice on MN lol and she was furious that people used "sweetheart" etc. To me, thats insane - to complain or be angry about people being too nice is actually rather nasty in my opinion and she did get a lot of flack for it which was deserved.

On the other hand, I do see people being unkind and very blunt here and sometimes cruel. I dont agree with that kind of behaviour at all but I think you do have to remember that this is a public forum where anyone can post. If you expose private and sensitive parts of your life online then you have to have a thick skin. If not, then dont post personal stuff online-ask your friends instead. Its not as if there isnt a way to protect yourself and noone is forced to post anything online. Just like anything, the internet can be absolutely vile and absolutely lovely at the same time.

The problem with the AIBU board is that the disgraceful behaviour you mention @Betchetybetch is passionately defended by those people who love to call it a "robust" place.

These are the same people who can't (or wilfully don't) differentiate between constructive criticism that helps an OP, and abuse or personal insults that belittle an OP.

Too often people think that if an OP sounds entitled, the best way to stop them being entitled is to tell them "you sound awful", "give your head a wobble". Not questions about why that person feels they are entitled, or advice as to why they could be wrong. Just insults.

The reality is that too many posters on here enjoy the ability to deliver well-worded cutting asides that upset OPs, and enjoy the "take them down a peg" culture.

Other posters enjoy reading the bunfight even if they don't join in.

And Mumsnet love the traffic, because the advertisers love the traffic.

@SDTGis I didn't know the story of Woolly hugs. That's amazing.

I came to mumsnet for honest advice/opinion. If people can't disagree with you whats the point?
You make the decision on whether you want to listen to what people have to say!